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Courageous big game hunting runs afoul

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by leadcounsel, Jul 29, 2015.

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  1. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Really? You don't quite understand what a "game preserve" looks like in Africa, then. It isn't a zoo. It isn't Disneyland. You would have a hard time finding anything in the entire world that would be closer to "wild back country," LESS touched by human encroachment.

    If hunting big game is your thing, that's probably exactly where you want to be.


    ...


    So using a guide is not "hunting." Ohhhkay then. Guess that's one way of looking at it.

    I'm completely over the entire "that ain't hunting!!!" argument. So inane. If you use bait, that ain't huntin'. If you use dogs, that ain't huntin'. If you sit in a stand and shoot an animal at 500 yds, instead of stalking it and shooting it at 30 yds, that ain't huntin'. If you use a semi-auto, that ain't huntin'. If you're using a vehicle, that ain't hunting. If you shoot on Sunday, that ain't huntin'. If you shoot a bird sitting on a branch, instead of a split second later when it is flying, that ain't huntin'. If you shoot an animal that's on a fenced ranch, that ain't huntin'. If you shoot an animal that's "cute" or "majestic" or "sacred" or "noble" or is named Cesil, or whatever other anthropomorphic bullcrap, that ain't huntin'. And on and on and on.

    So much self-congratulatory arrogance picking fly poop out of pepper. If you're killing an animal you didn't raise as livestock, WTH? It's hunting. Stop with the goofy, divisive, embarrassingly pointless denigration of other animal killing sportsmen and accept that hunting, like nature, is "red in tooth and claw" and no amount of gussying it up in "sporting" fluff and glitter changes one single thing about eradicating the life of another creature for your own purposes. No animal ever thought it was fair and no animal ever wanted to die of starvation, or being eaten alive by predators, more than it wanted to die of a bullet or arrow wound.

    It is what it is. Stop pretending.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  2. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

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    Sounds like a net win to me too. I have no problem with hunters paying for the privilege of culling problem megafauna.
     
  3. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

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    Such a ridiculous assertion it does not warrant further reply.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Good point. And it is an important point misunderstood (or more commonly, ignored or deliberately misrepresented) by folks who hate hunting or hate hunting of specific species.

    Animals are a renewable resource. Too much pressure may indeed overburden their ability to maintain a neutral or positive population growth rate, but "too much pressure" is not at all a given that goes hand-in-hand with hunting or other harvesting, or culling for that matter.

    And this very point is why the pro-hunting (conservationist hunting) argument is in reality much stronger than the anti-hunting (I don't want people to kill animals) argument. It is more practically effective. It actually WORKS to promote wildlife populations. Anti-hunting policies allow wildlife populations to collapse and vanish due to benign neglect. The blood of those animals is not "on my hands" because I didn't pull a trigger. But they're dead and gone because they served no compelling purpose, filled no need that was important enough to human beings to ensure their protection and promotion.

    The pro-hunting argument COULD be responsible for wiping out wildlife species due to over-hunting, but it generally ISN'T. Benign neglect certainly has wiped thousands of species off the planet.

    It, like just about everything else, comes down to economics. What is the compelling reason to do hard things and make sacrifices to actively protect these species? Hunting is a very powerful one. We want to be able to hunt these creatures, so we pay a LOT of money to do so, and that money helps sustain environments and protections for them.

    If hunting isn't a legal option, that money goes away, and if other money/reason/compulsion does not step in to encourage (or force) local populations to do all the work necessary to keep them healthy and flourishing, they'll simply cease to exist.

    It is grand to say that photo safaris and eco-tourism might fill that gap, or that some form of force should be applied to make that happen, but that's all just so much American/western cultural imperialism trying to impose an unfunded mandate upon another culture. And that other culture, no matter how much we look down upon them for it, doesn't and/or can't care enough about those species' survival to make it happen out of love for the creatures or the goodness of their hearts or a sense of ecological duty.

    If we want those creatures to survive, we have to compensate the peoples who will have to make it happen (by not killing them to protect crops, by not using their grazing lands for farming or development, by defending them against poachers ... or accepting the payments of poachers who WILL compensate them for the ability to take all they can).
     
  5. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Sam1911, I do understand. The reverse situation would be for someone who lives in Zimbabwe to fly all the way to Cody, Wyoming and then hunt on land that joins Yellowstone Park. I know it's done all the time but it doesn't look right. It's too easy for people in the guide business to push animals off of regulated land so they can be shot. They hunt along the fence with the parks because the large trophy animals are on the regulated land. There's too much of an incentive to cross the line from right to wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  6. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Sage,

    In Zimbabwe most parks are bordered by hunting blocks. The hunting blocks provide a buffer zone for the private land blocks and higher population areas.
     
  7. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    sage, I'm dubious: First you have to find that trophy animal and then you have to "push"--herd--it somewhere within range of the customer. Doesn't really sound to me like any sort of common occurrence.
     
  8. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    The lion had Skittles and Arizona Tea, just stole some cigars and tried to lift a gun from a cop.
    He was a model lion, was chosen to be the first big cat sent into space to find a cure for cancer on a space station.
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    What doesn't look right about it? Come here to hunt? Ok. Is this land legal to hunt on? Ok. Is this animal lawful to shoot when it is standing on this land? Ok. Then it looks as "right" as it ever could.

    I don't know if that deliberately happens, but it would certainly seem that there would be laws against driving animals off of national park lands set aside for their habitat. I'd need to see data on this before I consider it a real problem.

    What are you saying here? That they "cross the line" onto protected lands and shoot animals? Or that they shoot animals that have freely crossed onto non-protected ground? If the latter, that's perfectly acceptable. This isn't England and we don't poach "the King's deer."
     
  10. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

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  11. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    There have been some great points brought up by our members here. And this thing has gone full circle and is becoming repetitive. With that in mind we're going to close it for now.
     
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