Created an Auto-Deprimer/Cleaner machine. Interest?

Interest in an automatic Decapper-Cleaner machine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • No

    Votes: 15 41.7%
  • Comments

    Votes: 5 13.9%

  • Total voters
    36
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380Lover

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Feb 13, 2018
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I am a longtime Engineer, and even longer shooter (shooting started at 9 years old, Engineering at 26 years...). Reloading started for me with the 50 BMG machines that I helped build for LCAA about 10 years ago: then came the XM25 loading machine, and I/we started designing smaller automatic cartridge loaders. They are fairly expensive, so my attention turned to trying to make something automatic, fast, and useful for people like me, who burn through .380 and .45 ACP in prodigious amounts. I got tired of accurately decapping my .45 ACP first, so...

...I just completed a 3-year-long design cycle on an automatic Deprimer with Pocket Cleaner. It's about to be built into prototype, and production versions will follow this Summer. If you have any interest, I'd like to hear it? After I post enough to figure out how to post pictures, I'll put some up here.

The fully automatic [re]loader machine is coming next, but as it is expensive compared to, say, a progressive, I suspect its market will be limited to shooting clubs or groups. If you have interest, also let me know?
 
As an enginee you know cost/benefit is a key factor. Can you give us an idea of what type of price range you’re talk8ng about?

The full loading machine sounds very interesting. I’d think that competitive shooters would be your most likely customers.

As for the decal/primer pocket cleaner I see that as a harder sell as pocket cleaning is often said to be an unnecessary step. So unless the price is really attractive, many of us will simply decap, then clean our brass as a batch process.

In any case, I wish you luck and hope it works out for you as creating new things is really cool and the real joy of being an engineer.
 
OP welcome to the forum.
Always interested in the next new gadget for reloading. That said I still use a turret and a SS press because I can assure that ALL steps are being done correctly and inspected by me. I am not that much of a reloader doing about 25K a year of various ammo these days as I am not competing presently. I would be most interested in the aspect of accuracy of the actual process of propellant drops and percentages of deviation. Looking at safe loads with no double or squib loads and a process to assure that along with a low SD of charge weights when fully automated. This might be attractive to an individual that is making custom or semi-custom ammo for resale.
 
I'm an engineer and enjoy looking at new machines to understand how they work. I would be interested.


I feel like I may have been an engineer in a past life which causes me to enjoy looking and understanding machines now. I would certainly like to know more. I agree with the others that the cleaning of primer pockets may not be a huge selling point, now if it could clean the lube off after sizing/decapping.......;)
 
I have interest, but have to know what price level we are talking about to say if it's a purchasing one. Automated depriming is what matters to me as opposed to pocket cleaning, so consider a deprime-only version if it substantially improves affordability.
 
There are some automated machines out there now with brass feeders that can do this. Of course we would all be interested in a cost effective way to decap or size/decap, but could such a machine be cheap enough to add to bench. Why not automate a press that can do it all?
 
Like everything it depends.

In reloading a lot of weight is given to price, this is why Lee has the market share it does. Products that work at prices below everyone else.

That doesn’t mean there is not a market for “expensive” equipment, it’s just smaller.

This is a pretty easy way to make an automated decapping machine but for all the work, it can only decap.



Making it much less useful than say an automated press sizing/depriming and swaging cases.



Not to mention you can add some “smarts” to it and have it load for you as well.




Welcome aboard and send me a PM if you need help posting photos.

Also, it might make for a more detailed discussion if we put a qualitative value on what “expensive” is.
 
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380 Lover asked about:
Interest in an automatic Decapper-Cleaner machine?

I load on a single stage press in batches running between 10 and 200 cartridges, so I don't have enough utilization to spark a need for such a machine.

Now, an automated Decapper-Primer Pocket Crimp Removal machine might spark my interest even though the tangible and intangible benefits would probably never justify its cost - but then a lot of people buy extravagant things.
 
Let's see if I can answer some of these, and maybe post a picture:
The estimated price (which is ALL over the place, depending on the vendor(s) making the parts for us) is targeted to be more than the Lee Loadmaster press, less than a Dillon press. My own Loadmaster was $289, for comparison. It will be a little while before the vendors are selected, so it's hard to nail down the cost until then. From those we have talked with earlier, this is much less expensive than the quotes they have seen for anything even close to similar.

There are not any commercially-available, automatic, 120vAC/12vDC Decapper-Cleaner machines available. When we were designing the 50 BMG machine(s), their supporting vendors queried us a lot for just such a machine (one also wanted it to trim, but be limited to .223/5.56 rounds), the target market (sic) being small reloading companies who make lots of rounds, but get tired of decapping and cleaning the pockets. There are 5 such companies within 15 miles of me as I type this, but most of our inquiries came from other States.

The first unit will be intended for high-volume pistoleros. The first 2 to be built will be using the .380/.222/.223 shellplate and the .45 ACP shellplate. Changing the shellplate and brass pusher tip is all that is required to swap calibers, although there are 2 settings for "long" and "short" brass sizes, to reduce cycle time (i.e., speed it up for short brass).
 

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The base of this unit is less than 5" square, and stands about 16" tall. The clear-looking tube on the left of it is, at this point, a .45 ACP brass loader tube from a Lee Loadmaster press's infeed, and will likely be adapted to a Hornady (or similar) brass feeder sometime after we get one (this is not included in the cost), because the full tube (20 brass in .45 ACP) empties quickly and will be a nuisance to use in real life. The brass is pushed into the shellplate on the left side, decapped in the front location, cleaned at the next, and ejected out the back via a small chute. The "slot" in the front, in real life, has a clear vinyl tube coming out of it, routing the removed primers to a container you might wish to set in front of it. The small chute at the right side of the machine is a debris chute for the crumbs that come out of the pocket cleaner. The cleaner tool resembles a small flat-blade screwdriver, in several sizes, but I am also looking for a small wire brush tip like the old reloaders used to have when I was a kid.
 
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Dumb question, but I have to ask...to gain understanding, and to possibly let you go after design before it hits market and hiccups.

Let’s say you get into crimped 9mm and rather than push out a primer it rips the flat portion loose from the walls of the primer. Will the machine jam? How do you clear a jam? I have had this happen roughly 20 times in my 20 years reloading so it’s not a huge concern, but mass marketing increases the exposure to the issue so my once a year average may mean an every day issue in the consumer market.
 
Dumb question, but I have to ask...to gain understanding, and to possibly let you go after design before it hits market and hiccups.

Let’s say you get into crimped 9mm and rather than push out a primer it rips the flat portion loose from the walls of the primer. Will the machine jam? How do you clear a jam? I have had this happen roughly 20 times in my 20 years reloading so it’s not a huge concern, but mass marketing increases the exposure to the issue so my once a year average may mean an every day issue in the consumer market.

Yeah, I hear THAT! I have several other products out there (and a popular technical book), and I get feedback like that about them. It's all good, though. :)

...and, with the large amount of .32 ACP I get to reload for my wife, this can happen with them, too - although they are not crimped(!).

The Decapper has a limited-torque motor, which will NOT decap the (larger) crimped primers. This is chosen on purpose for a number of reasons, and it is not intended to decap those (nor size the brass): most reloaders don't seem to have an argument with that. To have a motor strong enough to do those would cost almost as much as the rest of this machine (in parts), and the market for it appears to be in the single-digit percentiles. The discussion of this came up with the 50 BMG and some local Contender shooters: in the end we decided not to try to manage MIL-rated rounds like those, opting to send those customers to the larger Reloader machine instead. We'll leave those rounds to the Dillon loaders... ;)

This machine would then continue on, if it can still index, and if it completed the Decap travel to the bottom of the drive. For this particular failure, it would then attempt to clean the non-existent pocket when it got to the next station, followed by dumping the 'broken' brass into the bin with the others, at the rear. (The larger Reloader Machine will do things differently, but it is a manufacturing-class piece of equipment, too, at 12x the cost!). If the dial jams for shrapnel hanging out below the shellplate, the index will fail and the little FAULT light (not shown in this picture) will flash. Then this requires the operator to remove the stuck brass by hand and do a RESET (which makes the same cycle run again, causing no further harm to anything). There is a 3-position toggle switch (Cycle-OFF-Run) also not visible in this picture, which is the control feature for the user.

I've been approached about a high-torque version of this thing for resizing by the hundreds, too, but the frame of this one is not nearly strong enough to manage, say, a .44 mag full-boat Starline for very long: that sort of torque requires heavier castings, like the O-frame designs best used for those things. This one would work apart the bolted-together frame from those loads, even if it was doweled, so that's another class of equipment.

Another thing not shown in this picture is the guard: there is a finger guard in front of the "punch" that is the Universal Decapping Die (user's brand choice), so laws require a finger guard around it for operation. It blocks the view of everything in these software models (because they show plastic as white color), so it is hidden in this image. It's a clear plastic guard with a little safety switch in the machine's frame that shows it to be closed for operation.
 
OP welcome to the forum.
Always interested in the next new gadget for reloading. That said I still use a turret and a SS press because I can assure that ALL steps are being done correctly and inspected by me. I am not that much of a reloader doing about 25K a year of various ammo these days as I am not competing presently. I would be most interested in the aspect of accuracy of the actual process of propellant drops and percentages of deviation. Looking at safe loads with no double or squib loads and a process to assure that along with a low SD of charge weights when fully automated. This might be attractive to an individual that is making custom or semi-custom ammo for resale.

These questions (re: charge accuracy) will be more inclined toward my automatic Reloader, but that is still a ways off. After we worked on the powder drop station for that one for almost 3 years, I got a Lee add showing their new one, and it almost looked like someone copied ours! I modified the mount in our station, and it drops right in, including their clever Disconnector. So, I stopped fiddling with mine and bought one of theirs, for $50...that will be used for our trials and prototypes when we get there, and it greatly reduced our development budget cost! It actually works well, too, once it got coated with some mica powder. I'm using Titegroup, 700X, SR7625, 800X, and Unique with it, and it holds 0.1 grain well. Oh- and I just got some W231, but only ran 1 batch with it: did just as well.
 
Maybe would be a better choice, can't say yes, can't say no.
Pistol brass isn't that much of an issue.
Now one to deal with crimped .223 would be really handy if the price was right.
 
Maybe would be a better choice, can't say yes, can't say no.
Pistol brass isn't that much of an issue.
Now one to deal with crimped .223 would be really handy if the price was right.


What would you estimate at "right price" to be like? (Not being snarky, am genuinely curious...market research, you might say?) :)
 
I would also say off the cleaning function, I wet tumble deprimed brass so pockets come out spotless.
Honestly not more than $75 if that and it would need to feed brass somehow.
When I can get another press (some flavors) for $120 it would be hard to justify more. The new Lee Progressive coming out is probably going to sell for $120-150.
So would I rather have a $75 decapper or another progressive press for a few $ more.
I just don't see it being feasible at the low end of the market. A giant super speed heavy duty one might be worth the $ to a business but that's a different case.
 
The “right price” part is what I was getting at in #8. Lots of people would like to have such a thing but not enough to pay for it.

There was a thread on another forum about the first machine I posted the video of first in #8. All it does is decap one caliber and it costs $1000.

I thought is was a silly thing to want for that kind of money because of it’s limitations. After your thread on a similar device, I decided to play a little myself and threw this machine together.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/auto-sp-lp-sorter-part-ii-auto-decap-machine.832907/

If you don’t want to waste time going to the thread, it decaps and sorts 45 ACP by primer pocket size. The sorting part, in my mind, is the more important of the two. In any case I couldn’t drive to the post office and ship it back home for what Walkalong would like to pay and I couldn’t buy a new Baldor gearmotor to replace the one I had in my “junk” pile for three times what Dudedog would pony up.

That’s why there isn’t a lot of stuff like this out there, very narrow market. If you could sell a few million of them, harbor freight would have them for $19.99.

What are your material costs before labor?
 
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I like the concept. Automating the decapping process certainly has few pitfalls (versus automating the entire load sequence, which many will balk at), but for the cost of the machine I can't see getting on board.

The cleaning feature is worthless to me and only adds more complication and expense. Additionally the shellplates will add to the cost as well - I load over a dozen calibers myself and the extra shellplates would be financially prohibitive.

The bigger problem you will run into is demand. Very few reloaders are likely to load in a volume necessary for them to justify the purchase. I think Dudedog is in the ballpark for price, which is likely not feasible. If it were I might be interested though.
 
Thanks for the replies! :)

Maybe I should mention: I have been designing and building custom automation equipment since the 1980s. [Re]loading ammo is a box-of-rocks simple process at the extremes, compared to most of the equipment and processes I have done.

It could be that the 'market' I am talking with is not the same as the members here? I'm imagining, from the responses, that there's mostly reloaders here who have a good time making their own ammo, maybe for some friends, too, while the other people I've been talking with use two or three Harbor Freight cement mixer tumblers to clean their brass in 2-hour shifts, 4-5 times per day, about 6,000 rounds per batch. They reload range brass from local ranges around here, and sell it again to those ranges for practice stuff. Typical volume in the shop nearest me is about 8,000-10,000 rounds/day, running 9mm every day and all the other calibers they make on the other machines in a weekly rotation sequence. They don't mind a $500-$800 (depending on whether it has a case loader added, or not) price tag if it runs unattended until empty, without jams. My intent here is to bring that sort of operation to higher-volume reloaders like the ones I met in Utah in 2016 and Missouri in 2017, who are making up to 10,000 rounds per week in their basements and/or garages, pulling handles on dozens of Dillons, RCBS, and LEE progressives with their friends...and beer...

There is also a "benchtop"-size fully automatic Loader (8 stations) in this family of products being developed. That one is for those who are in the ammo-building businesses like the ones described above, but who wish to also take it "on the road" when needed (as it runs on both 120vAC and 12vDC, no air compressor required). It is also going to be marketed to shooting clubs of high-volume shooters, as the tooling plate retains the dies and settings for whichever caliber was run, and can be swapped out to another in less than 5 minutes, while the base remains (heavily) sitting in place. It weighs about 120 pounds fully tooled! This one can also decap if desired, but does not clean the pocket: in my own loading experience, dirty pockets affect the primer insertion depth consistency. In my shooting experience, this affects the FPS number, and beyond 15 yards also the group size, particularly with pistols.
 
Theydon't mind a $500-$800 (depending on whether it has a case loader added, or not) price tag if it runs unattended until empty

How does it run unattended without a case loader?
 
auto depriming is of interest but, since I deprime then tumble to clean, primer pocket cleaning is not so important to me.
 
I would only want a universal deprimer that can handle crimped primers
 
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