Critical amount of chamber/ barrel misalignment

[Bernd2]

Hi everybody,

After reading a lot here about timing issues and chamber/ barrel misalignment, I was wondering if anyone had an idea what is considered the critical amount of misalignment, which makes the gun unsave to shoot.
For example: I have a brass-framed 1851 navy replica (cal. .44), which seems to suffer from a misalignment of about 0.04" to 0.05" to the right. So the barrel is overrotated a bit, when the hammer is cocked.

Would you think this gun is unsafe to shoot?

I hope I explained the situtation in an understandable way, because English is not my native tongue.
If I did not I apologize in advance!

Any comments on the topic will be greatly appreciated from a Blackpowder-Newbie from Austria

 

[unspellable]

I think you mean the cylinder has rotated too far, not the barrel. 0.004 to 0.005 inch of misalignment, while undesirable, will not be unsafe. As misalignment is greater, the first safety issue to arise will be shaving, throwing metal particles to the sides from the cylinder gap. I doubt yours is far enough off to do that, but it can be checked for by shooting with a sheet of paper to the side spaced about six inches away. Metal shavings will make holes in the paper.

Note that it is considered unsafe to have any one to the side of a revolver when firing in any case, as they all spit hot gas and crud out the cylinder gap. I've seen photos of some one's thumb after they held it right next to the gap on a 454 Casull. Not a pretty picture.

 

[Bernd2]

@unspellable: You are right, I meant the cylinder has rotated to far, not the barrel.
Thanks a lot for your immediate input, and the tip on how to check for metal shavings!

I will also talk to a gunsmith about my "misalignment problem" next week.

Still, I am very interested in more opinions from the experienced people in this forum, because I came to the conclusion (from all the reading I have done) that you guys have a lot more experience on the topic of blackpowder revolvers, than the people over here in Europe. It's not that European gunsmiths don't know these guns, but rather that every information might be helpful.

 

[Norton Commando]

Bernd,

How did you measure the misalignment? Your figures of 0.04" to 0.05" are considerably more than the ones quoted by unspellable. I would be concerned about a 0.05" mis-match between the barrel and the cylinder.

 

[unspellable]

Oops! I slipped a digit from reading too fast. 0.04 to 0.05 inch might be getting into the territory where bullet shaving starts. The exact point where it starts will depend somewhat on the configuration of the forcing cone.

 

[SAA]

The exact point where it starts will depend somewhat on the configuration of the forcing cone.

....and the bullet.

 

[Bernd2]

@Norton Commando: the figure of 0,04" to 0,05" is a very, very conservative estimation of mine, purely by eyesight. I am sure the actual amount is more, and therefor I am not going to shoot it until I had it properly inspected by a gunsmith.

Nevertheless all of the posts here gave me already at least some figures and aspects to take into consideration, which is very helpful.

I am aware of the fact that the exact point of a barrel/ chamber misalignment making a gun dangerous for the operator is probably impossible to determine, due to the multitude of factors involved. And that the final decision should (and will) be left to an experienced gunsmith. Still it is very interesting for me to learn about the factors involved, and therefor all the estimations (even if they can only be guidelines rather than rules) are more than welcome.

Thanks a lot guys

 

[Skinny 1950]

If the cylinder locks in the wrong place check the bolt (the thing that pops up from the frame to lock the cylinder) it may need some work.
Pull back on the hammer all the way and then try rotating the cylinder buy hand. If the cylinder rotates the bolt needs work,if it locks into the proper position when rotated buy hand you may need to take a bit off of the hand to get the timing correct.
Removing metal from the hand should be the last resort as taking too much off means having to replace it.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

The real issue is that none of these Italian pistols have internal hammer stops as the Colts did (a manufacturing savings).

Cylinder to barrel alignment issues will increase pressure as the bullet slams into the forceing cone unevenly. This would be especially undesireable on a brass framed pistol.

Bernd how did you measure this? An alignment rod of the proper diameter though the barrel and into the chamber is the only real way to check this.

HH

 

[Bernd2]

Hi guys, since you have been so helpful, I wanted to give you an update on the issue:

I took the gun to my local gunsmith with the issue. Before that I had noticed that one of the barrel pins was broken. Lacking experience on the topic I didn't think that this might contribute to the overrotating of the cylinder, since everthing 'looked' ok when the gun was assembled. As it appears it did a lot, because right after the repair of the barrel pin (a new one was installed) by my gunsmith, the overrotating was practically gone! I asked him about this and the only thing he could tell me was, that the gun appeared save to shoot now since the overrotating was gone.
What can I say, it is a blast to shoot even as it shoots considerably high at short distances, which as I understand is not uncommon whith these guns. But at least it is doing that consistently with the same amount, so I can can cope with it.

So once again thank you for all the kind help!

See (better: 'read') you all soon

Greetings,
Bernd

 

[mykeal]

Thanks for the update - glad everything is good now.

 

[StrawHat]

Hoof Hearted

The real issue is that none of these Italian pistols have internal hammer stops as the Colts did

I have not seen such on originals, can you elaborate?