Criticism of Hornady Critical Defense

[mljdeckard]

I said, the first time I saw an ad for it, this stuff is gibberish. It's inventing a problem to solve, and I see no testing of any kind that shows it is any more or less likely to expand than any other premium JHP ammo under the same circumstances.

It's been out a couple of years now, and I find myself wondering if anyone has done any kind of side-by-side testing on it to see what it does? I have serious doubts, but I would be interested to see what someone has tried.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Why not test it yourself?

 

[mljdeckard]

Because I'm not going to buy any of the stuff. I hoard all of the 230 gr HSTs I can find.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Ok, just seems like it would make sense to test it yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Found this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6Re_Gwcwc&feature=related

 

[EAS2011]

I shoot better with Critical Defense than PDX1 (Ranger Bonded). I don't like how the CD is bad with barriers though, so I would still rather just buy other hp designs instead.

 

[mljdeckard]

That's interesting enough, still no data on how other premium JHPs perform in comparison. I still think that if you did 100 of those, and 100 HSTs next to them, the numbers would be about the same, in every way including successful expansion through denim. I think they invented (or greatly exaggerated) the problem of cloth clogging the cavity and causing failure to expand.

 

[PabloJ]

Tried some of this stuff in Norinco 213. The accuracy was very pleasing but high incidence of failure to feed from mag to chamber was not.

 

[BENBRU]

So you're basing the belief that HSTs will expand through heavy clothing on what? Your baseless belief that the heavy clothing clogging JHP is an old wives tale? While I don't carry the critical defense round, or any other round that has a polymer tip on it I at least checked out this theory. Searching youtube results in some interesting stuff.

Send me 20 of those HSTs and I'll be glad to go buy the Critical defense and do a side by side with all 20rounds. I've got a ton of extra pairs of jeans that are going to go to Good Will otherwise. I'll even write up a little lab report for THR.

I do know that I carry the same ammunition that's issued to CSPD though so I figure I'm safe pending the outcome of this test. I might actually do this today.

 

[InkEd]

It is the ammo that shoots the best from LCP. I sometimes carry it in my CW9 too. IMHO Hornady makes some of the best ammo on the market. The Critical Defense line of ammo was never designed to be the "legendary (read as imaginary) best ammo."

It was designed to fill a certain segment of the CCW market. The goal was to produce a low recoil for people that carry ultra lightweight CCW pistols. To reduce recoil you have to reduce power/speed. A bullet need to travel with enough speed/hit with enough force to to make the round expand. Lower velocity rounds have a history of poor expansion.

Most lower velocity rounds designed for similar purposes, like Speer Gold Dot for Short Barrels and CorBon DPX, use a very large cavity with soft walls to ensure expansion. Hornady used a different approach by tweaking their "flex-tip" bullet design. Basically, it has a little piece of rubber that is stuffed into it and sticks out a little at the tip. Rather than making the cavity get filled up to cause expansion (like a traditional HP). Instead, the flex-tip design as the little rubber bit get pushed back it forces the round to expand sooner. This is because the cavity is "pre-filled" with the soft rubber. The downside, is it takes less time to fully expand (causing greater resistance at an earlier point) and results in less penetration depth. Another benefit is that because it is essentially shaped like a FMJ round it feeds reliably in guns that are "picky" about ammo.

It is a clever design and by having the cavity "pre-filled" very reliable and uniform expansion is achieved. However, it does come at the cost of a reduction in penetration.
Like most things in this world, you have to accept the good with the bad and find an
acceptable middle ground. It is just a matter of what satisfies your personal requirements
the best.

So, is it "better" than Hydra-Shock or any other premium bullet design?

The answer is a "definite maybe," because it truly just depends on what you are looking for in ammo design.

-InkEd

P.S. One final thing it has going for it is by "pre-filling" the cavity it prevents it from becoming "clogged" and not expanding due to debris.

 

[pikid89]

if you look at the shape of the bullet in the 380 load, its much more pointy, and it seems to feed much much more reliably in my LCP, compared to gold dots and others


edit


nm....i was thinking of the TAP loads...those are pretty awesome too

 

[brnmuenchow]

One day when I can find more time and materials I have alway's wanted to test some different loads I have. I typically carry the Winchester Supreme "PDX1" loads in .38Spl. & .9x19mm. I also aquired some of the Hornady "Critical Defense" loads in .9mm, and Blackhills JHP's in the same cal. it would be interesting to see for "MYSELF" which I think did a better job. As far as I am concerned all the before mentioned were very accurate on the range so at that point it for me was all about personal preference.

 

[orionengnr]

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm
Take a look at the pictures of the expanded Dritical Defense as opposed to the expanded DPX...

 

[1KPerDay]

Gold dot for me...

 

[SoulLessGinger]

The tests are out there. Don't want to mention other forums though.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm almost curious enough to go do it myself, I'm not in a position to be able to do so for another several months.

And no, I don't buy that it's my pre-conceived notions driving the thought process here. Hornady claims that their ammunition will do something that other premium rounds won't. I have yet to see any evidence to back it up, that's all.

The guys who are carrying it because it shoots better, it's more accurate, it feeds better, that is all perfectly fine and a good reason to use it.

 

[Ala Dan]

I carry the Hornady CD in my KEL-TEC P3AT .380ACP;
and sometimes in my 2" .38 Specials. But, I also
like Federal's 158 grain Nyclad as a self defense round;
when fired from the same 2" .38's~!

 

[KimberUltra]

It's pretty much the only hollow point my kimber will feed. Ive shot several boxes of the CD .45 and it all shoots great. I feel the 185 gr is plenty, since it feels to recoil about the same as other 230gr HP, although it feels smoother. Living in CT I haven't had a chance to do any tests on it since no one I know has any land and ranges are super strict. It shoots every time though and if it doesn't expand 100% every time like some people claim it's still going to stop someone.

 

[JW2]

It won't even feed in my TCP

 

[camsdaddy]

I find it the most accurate in my 642 and the light recoil makes it pleasant to shoot.

 

[SwampWolf]

I still think that if you did 100 of those, and 100 HSTs next to them, the numbers would be about the same, in every way including successful expansion through denim. I think they invented (or greatly exaggerated) the problem of cloth clogging the cavity and causing failure to expand.

Where do you get your "insight" from? What makes you take a position on what you claim is an unresolved question that you posed yourself? I'm just curious as to why you have come to believe something that you seem to have no basis for believing.

 

[hardluk1]

Good thang there so many brands and bullet designs to pick from. That way every one gets to pick what they like best so shoot what you like.

 

[SlowFuse]

The Hornady Crit. Defense is one of my favorite loads. Never had to use it in a bad situation, but in range sessions i've found it to group well and feed reliably out of my Glocks and Sigs. The low recoil and seemingly reduced flash is an added bonus. Has great expansion through 4-5 layers of denim and a nice line of milk jugs. My only complaint is it's getting hard to find in 9mm. If they haven't cut down production on this caliber, that should tell you something... I also carry/have tested the PDX1 but myth or not, the Hornady is my "winter carry" choice.

 

[Nushif]

Hornady claims that their ammunition will do something that other premium rounds won't.

We call it ... get ready .... hold on to something ...

"Sales"

Find me a brand that doesn't claim it does something everyone else can't and I'll show you bad advertising. 8)
Same goes for the "Glock Perfection" slogan. What do you want manufacturers to say?

"Our ammo does stuff that like ... makes people not as happy to attack you."
"Our guns work. Unless like ... they don't."
"You know, our QC is about on par."
"This gun is like ... totally mediocre, better buy our competitors."

For a bunch of capitalists you sure don't understand advertisement or the role it plays. Either that or people just like complaining. Not sure which. 8)

 

[joeq]

I saw in an earlier post that someone was carrying the Winchester PDX1 130 grain 38 special. I recently saw a test on youtube where that ammo would not expand out of a snubbie. He was shooting through four layers of denim into sim test media. He did two different tests and it plugged with denim both times. It's definitely worth checking out the video. I tried to link to his youtube profile but failed. You can just look up Tnoutdoors9 on youtube. His channel is all shooting related, I really like his videos.