Maybe you should carry FMJs in your backup magazine. All about the preparedness, right? You shouldn't have barrier issues with that.
I don't have barrier issues with my JHP ammo, of which I have two mags loaded for home defense (one in the gun and the other for a reload, plus one round in the chamber). However, "unofficially" I usually have a third magazine (normally dedicated to range duty) loaded with 200 grain hard-cast bullets from Double Tap, just in case.
That shouldn't be necessary, though. I expect barrier penetration to be the exception rather than the rule. I just don't see a reason to not use a JHP that can do it all rather than one with more limited capability (at least according to the manufacturer).
It the bad guy retreats behind a barrier,I am going to do the same thing and also try to create distance from the threat.Why would a non cop,or military want to stay ?
What if the bad guy's goal is killing you and he's still in your home taking cover behind furniture and taking shots at you? If you want to back away and wait for help, then by all means do so, but if you choose or are forced to fight then having the ability to effectively penetrate barriers gives you more options and may increase your odds of survival in certain situations. Why settle for less?
Too many people living in a fictitious world. Not worth discussing things with them.
I gave you real-world examples from my own life and those of others, and this vague and false claim is all you can come up with? You can do better than that. I think it is very clear who is living in a fictitious world here--one in which self-defense situations are very narrow in scope and limited in possibilities, as well as utterly predictable. And all of this is just to defend a pricey product that lacks capabilities that several competitors provide. I would suggest that using one's ability to listen to reason is of greater value than baseless brand loyalty, but you're free to do whatever you want.
This thread was about Hornady Critical Defense ammunition. And people were talking about all the things that it couldn't do for you.
This is the very subject that Hornady's own representative brought up and the original poster wanted to emphasize for the rest of us. So what's the problem?
Even though their scenarios are not what this ammo was designed for. And many of their scenarios barely fall into the category of self defense. Some scenarios don't fall into the self defense category at all.
Like what? Are you saying that self-defense by definition is only against robbers and burglars, and expressly not against determined murderers--often acting under the influence of drugs--specifically targeting people? What would you call that?
But hey, this is America. Buy whatever the hell you want. If you think that while you're out in public, that you're going to be diving behind dumpster or cars; and shooting through windshields, car hoods, or whatever; and you consider that "Self Defense";
What if somebody is angry at you for no reason, such as in most cases of road rage, follows you until you exit your vehicle and walk some distance away, and then tries to run you down? One such incident happened not far from where I live and not long ago. The victim was an off-duty cop who was forced to shoot through the attacker's windshield in order to stop her. While he could have stayed in his vehicle, the attacker could have run him down before he even got to it after shopping, so it's a moot point. That he is a cop is also moot because the attacker didn't even know--she was in a blind rage and just wanted to kill him, and he could have been a civilian.
then you definitely need to get a 44 magnum and some buffalo-bore ammo. They've got some 340 grain LFN at 1478fps and 1649 ft/lbs. I promise you that it will go through all the barriers you want it to.
Nah, the service-caliber JHP I use works just fine through a variety of common barriers.
And if you're living in a threatened state day to day because there's someone wanting to kill you, and you prefer to prepare yourself instead of contacting the police,
I have contacted the police, as well as several attorneys for advice. What do you think the police are going to do, arrest the guy for something he hasn't done and for threats that I can't prove to them or a judge? I tried to get his neighbors to support my case (I know them personally, too), but they all refused because they're afraid of him now, given his recent behavior. And every attorney told me the same thing, which sort of surprised me at the time, which was to move far away. But I've spent a large part of my childhood running from somebody else (that's a whole other story), and I'm not going to run away from anybody anymore (why run when you're not afraid?). And I'm certainly not going to use ammo that can't do everything its competitors can do, just in case I'll need the additional capability.
But for those that accept the fact that self defense (Protecting oneself, and not necessarily others or their property), is outside the home, and they realize that they aren't going to be getting in "Shoot-out", but rather drawing their weapon as a defensive measure to an immediate threat, then the Critical Defense ammunition might do you fine. It's designed to shoot people. People with clothing. (Which most people wear). If you're going to shoot through your or someone else windshield, I suggest you find another round.
That last part is good advice, and I would suggest that everybody find a more capable round, just in case. The rest is based on assumptions about things that supposedly cannot happen, in one person's opinion, but real life is less predictable.
If you're going to shoot INTO their car, or through another car, instead of running the other direction,
I'm reasonably athletic, but I don't think that I could outrun a car. If you can, then bravo, and may I suggest representing our country in track & field events around the world?
If you're going to get out of your car and confront, or shoot through a window at a crazed lunatic instead of driving off; or at least using that 4,000 lb car instead of the 125 grain bullet; (How many grains in 4,000 pounds???); then you definitely need a different bullet than the critical defense.
This assumes that I'd already be in my car. What if I weren't?
So yes, there are definitely times when you're in public, that maybe the critical defense bullet isn't the right ammunition. I guess it all depends on what you believe your threat is. I guess we could prepare for every conceivable scenario, and carry accordingly.
Then what are you arguing for? Even if we can't prepare for every conceivable scenario, it's pretty obvious that there are JHPs that have better coverage of various potential scenarios than Critical Defense at no extra charge. Again, why settle for less? If your gun works best and is more accurate with it, for example, and you think that's more important, then fine, by all means use it. I just don't see a point in you casting aspersions on the valid, realistic views of others.
Of course, there's those that will give their opinion about how a 32acp isn't a good self defense caliber. Then again, I can usually figure out in the first couple sentences of a post how much a person really knows.
I think that .32 ACP would work fine in the vast majority of scenarios, especially in FMJ form. Did I just shock you there? There are numerous previous posts by me on this subject to back up what I just said.
Real simple fact. When a person becomes definitive with you; I.e. they use words like BEST, WORST, ALWAYS, NEVER, etc... and they use they words in a broad stroke; chances are they have no idea what the hell they are talking about. Remember, BROAD STROKE. "Someone will come back and say that I used the word never, always, etc..." Too funny.
But you said "But for those that accept the fact that self defense (Protecting oneself, and not necessarily others or their property), is outside the home, and they realize that they aren't going to be getting in 'Shoot-out'" which seems pretty much like saying "never" to me--implying that you'll never get into a shootout.
Well, you might--never say never (whether you use the actual word or not
).
So lets get definitive. Critical Defense Ammunition does NOT SUCK. It may not be the best ammunition for your particular need, but that doesn't mean it sucks.
It doesn't suck but it has limitations, and there are alternatives that do everything it does just as well and other things on top of that better.
When you realize that guns and ammo are simply tools, and it's you the person who ultimately is the one that will protect you, then you'll realize that definitive thoughts are useless.
Like never getting into shootouts or otherwise having to penetrate barriers in self-defense, right?
