Cross Draw?

[zombienerd]

I remember my training when I was in the Navy, our tactical vests had us drawing our 9mm's from stomach level, opposite our strong side. I've had this technique become second nature, and I was wondering how many people utilize this style of draw?

I was considering getting a IWB holster, and having it "mexican carry" in the front of the pants on the opposite side, I have tried it out using my airsoft pistol and it's holster, and I find it quite comfortable, and it's always right where my hand rests when I'm sitting.

I was just wondering if anyone had a list of pro's and con's for this style of draw, what negative aspects can you think of?

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't.
Most of my training frowned on sweeping 90° of space on the way to the target.

 

[DaveBeal]

The range I go to won't allow you to practice cross-draw, because you sweep the shooters on your weak side.

 

[mbt2001]

I like cross draw, makes more sense when you are driving.

 

[zombienerd]

Most of my training frowned on sweeping 90° of space on the way to the target.

The range I go to won't allow you to practice cross-draw, because you sweep the shooters on your weak side.

From the front of the waist, the only thing I'm sweeping is the floor in front of me and the space between me and my target...

Maybe what I do isn't considered cross draw.. My holster would be on the right side of the front of my pants, about the 1 o'clock position, the gun handle pointed to the left as I look down (I'm a lefty). When I draw, the gun comes straight up against my stomach, and then practically straight forward as my hand rotates to get the gun in the correct position.

I can see the sweeping argument with a shoulder rig though.

 

[Old Fuff]

I occasionally use IWB cross draw, as it works well when sitting, or in a car.

Of course the cross draw bliss-nannies object, but this bothers me not at all. One can perfect drawing at home with an unloaded gun.

Ed McGivern, now long forgotten, had an interesting technique (for a right-handed person, left hand in reverse).

As your right hand reaches toward the holstered gun, rotate your left hip toward center. Then as you hand grasps the gun’s handle rotate the hip back counter-clockwise. You can literally clear a snubbie out of a holster with the hip movement without moving your right arm – but naturally you will. It can be very quick.

 

[Frank Ettin]

While I think cross draw has some application, i. e., driving or if you sit a lot, I prefer strong side carry. With cross draw, one swings toward the target. With strong side, one is on target as soon as the gun clears the holster and is rotated to point down range.

 

[zombienerd]

As your right hand reaches toward the holstered gun, rotate your left hip toward center. Then as you hand grasps the gun’s handle rotate the hip back counter-clockwise. You can literally clear a snubbie out of a holster with the hip movement without moving your right arm – but naturally you will. It can be very quick.

That's an interesting technique, I may have to try that

 

[glockman19]

I frequently carry a S&W 442/642 and draw from my breast pocket when wearing a leather coat or dress/suit jacket.

 

[Old Fuff]

zombienerd:

That's an interesting technique, I may have to try that.

For a right-handed person: If you happen to have your left side facing the target, all you have too do is slightly lift the muzzle and shoot. Of course we don't do this on any shooting range because it would upset somebody...

 

[NDN-MAN]

Sweeping

Try this.
1) step back with your strong side leg. As you grip your weapon, disengage retention devise if you have one.
2) As your foot plants firmly, draw your weapon. As it clears the holster it should be poining down range.
3) From this position bring the weapon forward and up.Now raise the weak hand. And grip the weapon.This should put you in a WEAVER stance.

Practice slowly and properly. Correct as needed. Remember slow + smooth + time = speed.

 

[Defense Minister]

I used to carry IWB crossdraw, but it is always strong side now. My reasoning is that if I need to defend myself against an attack with my weak hand, I can sumultaneously draw with my strong hand while keeping the rest of my body as far away from the attack as possible while minimizing the possibility of being disarmed by my attacker. As I said, just my personal reasoning.

 

[psyopspec]

As your right hand reaches toward the holstered gun, rotate your left hip toward center. Then as you hand grasps the gun’s handle rotate the hip back counter-clockwise. You can literally clear a snubbie out of a holster with the hip movement without moving your right arm – but naturally you will. It can be very quick.

IIRC, this move was born on a dance floor in the '70s.

JK, I'll give it a try with my J Frame tonight.

 

[FoMoGo]

One thing to remember about cross draw...
If you are in contact with a goblin, your draw stroke is very weak.
It would be very easy for them to overpower your draw.


Jim

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I use crossdraw for hunting...crossdraw is faster, plain and simple.

Its just not easily concealable.

 

[Sam1911]

One thing to remember about cross draw...
If you are in contact with a goblin, your draw stroke is very weak.
It would be very easy for them to overpower your draw.

Further commentary to back up this excellent point:

Ayoob says it might be easier for your adversary to grab the pistol from you.

If not just that it's easier to grab the gun from you, it is much easier to prevent you from drawing the gun. If you're close to your adversary and grip your gun in its cross-draw or shoulder rig, your arm is laid across your body. If the bad guy gets a hand on your wrist or forearm he may have a much easier time of preventing you from withdrawing the gun and getting it turned around to point at him. The muscles that would pull your arm back around in that draw stroke just aren't very strong and the bad guy can use his weight and full strength to prevent you from doing so. If you're REALLY close, on the ground, or against a wall, he might not even need to use his hands to bind you up long enough to make his own attack.

With a strong-side holster it is a lot harder to obstruct the draw stroke and the gun can be fired just as soon as it clears leather and the muzzle rotated up.

-Sam

 

[David E]

The only time I wear a cross-draw is hunting or hiking.

It's a good way to carry a large caliber revolver and keep it readily accessible and easy to draw.

.

 

[notorious]

One thing to remember about cross draw...
If you are in contact with a goblin, your draw stroke is very weak.
It would be very easy for them to overpower your draw.

Sorry, I have pull an internet samurai mall ninja on this one...

I carry IWB or Paddle crossdraw most of the time. I don't do it in the appendix position but I move it left more so it's between my appendix and where my offside mag pouch would be. It aids in concealability and I find it more comfortable since the gun butt won't jab into my beer belly as I sit.

That being said, if you are concealing it the way you should be, first of all, what would the baddie be preventing? He can't be trying to prevent you from drawing something that he doesn't know exists.

Second of all, if the baddie is that close, you have other worries such as being stabbed or pummeled to death by him before you can draw from any means, shoulder, strongside, ankle, out of your trunk, in your gun safe, from Bubba's truck mounted gunrack, etc.

Expanding on the second point, if the bad guy is that close to me and has a weapon, I am in a world of hurt already. He can stab me quite a few times before I can clear leather. If he is swinging a bat at me, I can feint and dance a bit as I draw and at that point, it makes no difference where I carry.

If the baddie has no weapon and is that close but wants to fist fight, would I be justified in drawing a pistol and using deadly force or am I just introducing a gun into the equation and escalating it? This is more of a California answer since victims here are often the ones in the wrong as the perps get to sue us for injuries caused by his actions which mandated my reaction.

Lastly, if a guy is busy with his hands reaching for my gun on my waist, his next move will be putting his hands on his face as he is looking for his eyeballs that I just gouged out or craddling what's left of his reproductive organs after I introduce them to my kneecap a few times at full force.

I am not saying this because I am Chuck Norris or because I am a retired Ranger Seal Delta Green Beret GSG-9 SAS SBS FBI HRT SWAT SERT SORT SRT HBT ESU NFL UFO NAACP NBC CBS MSNBC certified operator that can kill with my weak hand pinkie on a bad day.

Just saying if someone is going for my gun, it's on and all the rules go out the door.

 

[Old Fuff]

psyopspec:

IIRC, this move was born on a dance floor in the '70s.

Meaning this:

As your right hand reaches toward the holstered gun, rotate your left hip toward center. Then as you hand grasps the gun’s handle rotate the hip back counter-clockwise. You can literally clear a snubbie out of a holster with the hip movement without moving your right arm – but naturally you will. It can be very quick.

No, not on a dance floor during the '70's, but by Ed. McGivern in Idaho during the 1920's and 30's. Using Smith & Wesson Military & Police / 1905 Hand Ejector .38 revolvers, he could draw and fire in 2/5 of one second - and hit what he was shooting at.

 

[notorious]

IIRC, this move was born on a dance floor in the '70s.

Yeah, it's called the cross-draw Hustle, but more popularly known as simply, "The Hustle".

Do the hustle! Dee dee dee dah dee dee dah dah dah dah dee dee...

 

[Dr.Rob]

Hunting/open carry only with a large revolver. Fast and comfortable, less interference with a slung or carried rifle or getting in and out of vehicle.

 

[Bakeneko]

One thing to remember about cross draw...
If you are in contact with a goblin, your draw stroke is very weak.
It would be very easy for them to overpower your draw.

I come at things from the outlook of someone who has spent a lot of time in Japan learning old Japanese martial arts. The samurai did carry their swords on the left hip where a cross draw holster would probably be. They had a lot of stuff in their related unarmed stuff to deal with people either trying to prevent them from drawing, or grabbing their swords.

The key seems to be have skills that will at least allow you to disengage and gain enough distance to draw your weapon in a safe manner.

One thing I have used in training is to let the guy take control of your right arm to try to prevent you from drawing, move your left hip back while you keep your right hand out in front and draw your pistol using a 'wounded shooter' grip with the left hand. I should point out that I have shot with the wounded shooter grip on the range, and have shot training partners with airsoft during training using this, but no one AFAIK has used this for real. Take it with that caveat.

There is a lot more, but it is hard to put into words. In fact, it is kind of like trying to detail some aspects of shooting to someone who has no experience in trigger control or the use of sights. I just don't have the words to explain things to someone without common experience. The key though seems to be to not have to rely on the pistol to do anything. Notorious seems to be on the same page with his comments about what to do at a range where you can touch each other like this. But that takes skill and constant practice.

 

[notorious]

Bake, you are right on with your line of thought. I referenced the internet samurai for a reason but thought it too ethereal and remote to connect here.

We do train constantly for weapon retention and strategies. As a matter of fact, we did it again a few days ago. Like I said, at contact ranges, you have a lot more to worry about than drawing your gun.

This is a fairly common issue for all aspects of what we do. Cops are told to maintain a tactical distance and some take to not having a pen in their shirt pocket so a criminal can't take it and stab him with it. My trainee ("boot") fell for that.

I told my "boot" that if he allowed a criminal to get so close to him and gave him enough time to grab at a disposable penmate pen out of his pocket and pull it out and stab him with it, he has more problems than I can cure as a training officer.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Haven't seen that method posted in a LONG time, Old Fuff. A coon's age, really.

Doesn't matter how you carry, really. There's no substitute for awareness and being able to address the problem when your awareness tells you it needs to be done.

Crossdraw is hardly hobbling yourself.

 

[jem375]

I have carried both strong side and cross draw and decided that cross draw is the best for me. For me it's faster and I drive a lot and it's easier to draw..
Everyone has their own ideas about carrying and should do whatever is best for them..