Nature Boy, congratulations on the new "toy"! It looks like an excellent combination that you have there with the Bartlein barrel and Mausingfield action. I'm not a big fan of Manners stocks but I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts re the action and seeing how the rifle shoots. My apologies if I missed it but why .308 Win rather than a 6.5mm? The .308 Win is my favorite all-around cartridge for sure but in today's 6.5mm world it seems to be less common than it once was for custom builds.
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Nature Boy
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Thanks MCMXI
I went with the .308 because it's the round I have the most experience loading for, I have a ton of components for it, most of my shooting will be at 100/200/500 yards and I might give F T/R a try in the future.
Plus, the only thing standing in the way of this rig becoming a 6.5 slinger is my checkbook and another barrel from SAC
I went with the .308 because it's the round I have the most experience loading for, I have a ton of components for it, most of my shooting will be at 100/200/500 yards and I might give F T/R a try in the future.
Plus, the only thing standing in the way of this rig becoming a 6.5 slinger is my checkbook and another barrel from SAC
That makes a lot of sense. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your load workup results for the new rifle ... always an exciting time. I only have one Bartlein barrel and it's on my AI AW but it's a phenomenal shooting barrel. I "had" to send it back to MHSA to have the shoulder turned down about .005" but it shot awesome both before and after. I'm anticipating good things from yours.
What's the handicap?
24" 308 Win 1:12 twist barrels shooting 168 to 200 grain bullets will easily shoot sub MOA through 1000 yards. 150's to 800 yards.
That rifles magazine is its biggest detriment to precision shooting. Just like magazines on M14NM rifles. Buy 20 then use the 3 or 4 that shoot to same point of aim.
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bikemutt
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Congrats, what a beautiful rifle. If it shoots even half as good as it looks you'll have great rifle.
Buy 20?! Those AICS magazines are expensive. If you buy the better AI branded magazines you're looking at $75 or so per magazine. Accurate-Mag are a bit cheaper but not as well made in terms of tolerances, but either way, the suggestion to buy 20 is kind of ridiculous. $1,400 on magazines for an issue that I've never experienced despite owning and shooting numerous rifles that use the AICS and AW magazines is a fool's errand ... in my opinion of course.
i agree. It's ridiculous if you'll accept near MOA spread of zero's across several. Good marksmen with accurate rifles easily see the difference.
Precision bolt action tube guns used in competition shoot to different points from aim across their detachable magazines. Their owners have matched pairs for rapid fire matches requiring a reload. Bolt guns with internal box magazines have a clip guide to hold 5-round stripper clips to reload with and don't have that problem.
If you can shoot your SPR no worse than 3/4ths MOA through 200 yards, you may see the difference.
What objective of yours is met with 5-round detachable magazines for a bolt action rifle?
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Nature Boy
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Magpul is making a $35 AICS mag now. I bought one to try
CraigC
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Cool rifle and they have some nice looking stuff on their website. They usually build and ship that quickly?
Why do people make these assumptions?With $5K to burn you most be single/with out family or still living with you parents. No envy here...........just other priorities.
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Nature Boy
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I guess it depends on their workload. In this case they had all the components in stock so I'm sure that helped. The only thing they had to order was the scope. They made me a deal on it since they were building the rifle, which was nice.
Plus, they kicked in a $50 veteran's discount.
They've been good folks to work with.
All that's left is get my hands on it and send some bullets down range. Can't wait
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A 168gr. tipped matchking (length 1.357") is only marginally stable in a 1:12 twist barrel at sea level depending on temperature. Check for yourself:
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Even if it groups OK, you're giving up BC due to wobble for no good reason whatsoever. Hence why the 1:10" twist barrels have become the norm.
Not according to JBM ballistics with a reduced load shooting it out at only 2300 fps:
JBM's minimum stability rating is 1.400 for a wide range of atmospheric conditions. The stability will be higher with the normal muzzle velocities a 308 shoot's 'em.
Sierra developed their 168 International bullet in the late 1950's for the US Army International Rifle Team for their 300 meter free rifles chambered for the 308 Winchester and 1:12 twist barrels shooting them out about 2200 fps. Gold medals were won as it shot well under 2/3 MOA at 300 meters in tests.
How much?
How is it measured?
All bullets wobble a little bit; only 5% or less of any given lot of match bullets are perfectly balanced.
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Wouldn't it make more sense to identify that a problem exists first i.e. buy two or three magazines and see what you have? Also, in your opinion, what feature of a magazine changes the rifle's zero. Does the weight of the rifle play into how sensitive it is to different magazines?
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JBM's calculator is VERY optimistic for tipped bullets. Berger's is probably slightly pessimistic, but I'd much rather be safe than have my bullet wobble because it's cold out.
The 175 gr. Berger VLD is DEFINITELY not fully stable in a 1:12 at low altitude & temperature, and there's no tip there to confuse matters.
The 175 gr. Berger VLD is DEFINITELY not fully stable in a 1:12 at low altitude & temperature, and there's no tip there to confuse matters.
That's what the Berger calculator is for, to answer that question. Also realize that while marginally stable loads may group well, there's no guarantee.
Probably best with Doppler radar.
Doppler radar only measures bullet speed. Distance, too, if its fundamental or carrier frequency is changed and the difference can be calculated for speed.
I used to maintain, operate, and teach classes on doppler radars. None of them can tell how wiggly airplanes are as they buffet going through the sound barrier.
The fact that such bullets drive tacks shot at the speeds and twists I mentioned carries no weight in your reasoning doesn't surprise me.
horsemen61
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Nature boy Nice rifle!
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Nature Boy
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It came in to the FFL today but I'm going to be so tied up at work this week that I wont be able to get my hands on it till Thursday. It's killing me!
However, I have Good Friday off so I'll be spending all day at the range
However, I have Good Friday off so I'll be spending all day at the range
bikemutt
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Your wait is my wait, I can't wait
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Which over time gives you BC, and if measured with two different twist rate barrels lets you determine what's been lost due to wobble in the slower barrel.
Bart B., are you going to explain how different magazines change a rifle's zero by as much as 1 moa. I have found some opinions floating around the internet but nothing definitive. Many of us have rifles that use detachable magazines so inquiring minds want to know the physical explanation for this phenomena.
Llama Bob
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I'd just like to see a target illustrating this phenomena. I've got 6 different detachable box magazine systems in use (generic AR15, Larue AR10, AICS long action, AICS short action, Ruger 10/22 and CZ 452/455) and I've never seen any POI shift that could be said to follow a magazine.
As with the "smaller groups at range" thread, there's no point in offering explanations for something unless you can first prove there's something to explain.
As with the "smaller groups at range" thread, there's no point in offering explanations for something unless you can first prove there's something to explain.
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Nature Boy
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Hey, me here, the OP
What if I slap in an empty magazine, any old magazine, then proceed to single load every round?
What the hell difference does the magazine make to my accuracy down range?
Discuss......
(PS, I think Bart is talking about an M14......and has nothing to do with a bolt action.....which is obviously WAY off topic......but I'm always open to learn something new.....)
What if I slap in an empty magazine, any old magazine, then proceed to single load every round?
What the hell difference does the magazine make to my accuracy down range?
Discuss......
(PS, I think Bart is talking about an M14......and has nothing to do with a bolt action.....which is obviously WAY off topic......but I'm always open to learn something new.....)
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bikemutt
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That's how I shoot my chassis bolt rifles. The only reason I have a mag inserted is to prevent the cartridge from falling through the action.
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