I'm a dyed-in-the-wool revolver guy. I realize the jump from the cylinder to the forcing cone of the barrel is a hindrance to revolver accuracy when compared to the consistant positioning of the single chamber and barrel unit of an auto, but has anyone ever really quantified loss of accuracy on a well timed and made revolver versus the auto? I read of teeny-weeny groupings from revolvers back in the heyday of target revolvers, and tend to think that the advantage of being able to tweak a revolver load for accuracy versus a comparatively narrow range of accuracy versus functional reliability in auto loads would make the comparison results a wash. Also, I wonder why quality .22 revolver manufacturers don't face off cylinder length when making a .22 on a larger frame revolver, then extend the barrel farther back through the frame to the cylinder to reduce the length of jump? It would look like that Smith .45ACP snub (I don't know if it's still made or not) but would, I think, be functionally advantageous. What am I missing?
Cylinder to barrel jump of slug..how much accuracy loss?
- Thread starter toolmaker
- Start date
- Status
Tom C.
Member.
I think the accuracy loss attributed to revolver freebore in the cylinder is much over blown. Obviously, many factors are involved. Cylinder alignment is an obvious one. Normally, throat size would be very important, at least not being undersized. But oversized doesn’t seem to hurt as much as I would have expected.
Several examples.
S&W Model 25-2, .456” throats, S&W 625-8, .452” throats. Both shoot the same loads about equally well.
Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt, .449” throats. Grouping not red hot. Open throats to .452”, grouping much improved.
One additional problem of revolvers. If the barrel is fairly thin where it is threaded into the frame, it can flex as it is torqued into the frame. That decrease in internal diameter can be .001” - .002”. This is referred to as choking. That also plays hell with accuracy. The cure is Taylor throating the barrel, or fire lapping it. Accuracy will be significantly improved by either procedure.
The auto has its own set of problems, mostly relating to repeatability of the mechanical relationship of major parts in battery: barrel in slide, slide on frame. Numerical control tooling has greatly improved the production quality of all handguns by improving the precision of manufacture.
On a dollar for dollar basis, it is probably easier to buy a good shooting revolver than an equally good shooting auto. My Dan Wesson .44 and my S&W PC 500 Hunter both shoot into 2” at 50 yds. from the box. It took some expensive, skilled work and a Kart barrel on a 1911 to get it to shoot as well. Really good 1911s are available, but in my experience, they tend to cost more than similar revolvers.
Several examples.
S&W Model 25-2, .456” throats, S&W 625-8, .452” throats. Both shoot the same loads about equally well.
Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt, .449” throats. Grouping not red hot. Open throats to .452”, grouping much improved.
One additional problem of revolvers. If the barrel is fairly thin where it is threaded into the frame, it can flex as it is torqued into the frame. That decrease in internal diameter can be .001” - .002”. This is referred to as choking. That also plays hell with accuracy. The cure is Taylor throating the barrel, or fire lapping it. Accuracy will be significantly improved by either procedure.
The auto has its own set of problems, mostly relating to repeatability of the mechanical relationship of major parts in battery: barrel in slide, slide on frame. Numerical control tooling has greatly improved the production quality of all handguns by improving the precision of manufacture.
On a dollar for dollar basis, it is probably easier to buy a good shooting revolver than an equally good shooting auto. My Dan Wesson .44 and my S&W PC 500 Hunter both shoot into 2” at 50 yds. from the box. It took some expensive, skilled work and a Kart barrel on a 1911 to get it to shoot as well. Really good 1911s are available, but in my experience, they tend to cost more than similar revolvers.
Jim Watson
Member
Agree with Tom. The comparison has been made many times and for the same dollar cost, a revolver will normally be more accurate than an auto. The auto took over competitive target shooting because it could be made accurate enough and did not require disturbance of the grip to cock for the next shot. Modern run 'n gun shooters don't consider NRA Rapid Fire of five shots in 10 seconds to be very fast but they are not often shooting onehanded at a 3.39" ten ring at 25 yards, either.
As to why they don't/didn't make cartridge length cylinders for .22s, I think the reasons are that it would add cost for little improvement in performance, and that it would look funny, which has a stronger influence on buyers than maybe it should. I know a PPC shooter who has about worn out a custom .38 with wadcutter length cylinder and is distraught because the gunsmith is dead and nobody else is doing the same work.
As to why they don't/didn't make cartridge length cylinders for .22s, I think the reasons are that it would add cost for little improvement in performance, and that it would look funny, which has a stronger influence on buyers than maybe it should. I know a PPC shooter who has about worn out a custom .38 with wadcutter length cylinder and is distraught because the gunsmith is dead and nobody else is doing the same work.
alchemist11
Member
accuracy and cylinder gap
As was mentioned previously, cylinder gap has little if anything to do with accuracy, but has to do with velocity loss and the ability to annoy your neighbors with the blast. For the factors and mechanics of accuracy in a revolver, a diffinitive and simple discussion of it can be found on John Linebaugh's web site, and taylor throating as a very effective and cost effecient remedy can be found at alphaprecisoninc.com. Cylinder throat sizes, squaring of the forcing cone, proper size of the forcing cone, absence of choking of the barrel where it screws into the frame, and the alignment of the cylinder throats to the barrel are the most critical factors.
As was mentioned previously, cylinder gap has little if anything to do with accuracy, but has to do with velocity loss and the ability to annoy your neighbors with the blast. For the factors and mechanics of accuracy in a revolver, a diffinitive and simple discussion of it can be found on John Linebaugh's web site, and taylor throating as a very effective and cost effecient remedy can be found at alphaprecisoninc.com. Cylinder throat sizes, squaring of the forcing cone, proper size of the forcing cone, absence of choking of the barrel where it screws into the frame, and the alignment of the cylinder throats to the barrel are the most critical factors.
- Status
