CZ 82 Vs. Hi Power

[rellascout]

If you are looking at HP clones vs the CZ82 get the 82. It has one of the nicest DA triggers especially for a surplus gun and the SA is as good as any out there. It will serve you well as a carry piece that in a pinch can be a good all around shooter. The main issue with the CZ82 is the weight, not much lighter than the BHP, do to the all steel construction.

Personally I think the BHP is a better all around gun. It is a perfect length for home and range work. It is more accurate from a mechnical standpoint than 99% of shooters are capable of. It conceals well like a 1911 commander sized pistol because of its slimness. The CZ82 is almost the same width in the grip which IMHO is the hardest part of the gun to conceal properly. With the right IWB holster and belt the BHP is no harder to carry than the CZ82.

I would also consider looking at a Israeli trade in before a Feg or FM clone. They can be had for less than $400 or refinished for about $450 and they are real MKIII Hi powers.

As for the gentleman who does not like 9x18mm Marakov to each their own but I have to ask why you felt the need to turn this into a caliber war thread. Way to keep to the high road.

I personally have to agree with Fastcast As the old saying goes.....It's not the arrow but the Indian.

 

[Fastcast]

KodiakBeer, I forgot to ask you in my last post. Have you replaced your recoil spring in your 82? I'm guessing you probably have.

If you have a fresh spring and high hold, I believe the recoil is really manageable and allows quick, accurate follow up shots comparable to the HP.....IMO

I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to wrap my head around the "greatly reduced recoil" comment.

Check out this video. Shows the recoil of 82 pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIO-0yc6RFU&feature=related

 

[mgmorden]

Not sure exactly what it is, but to me the CZ-82 feels bad in my hands. Nothing specifically that I can pin down wrong with the gun - it just doesn't feel right. It's been a long - LONG time since I've fired a Browning HP. Matter of fact it was about 14 years ago when I was in high school. A friend's dad had one and he let us go out in the back yard and shoot targets (they lived in the woods). That said, from what I can recall, the Hi Power felt better in the hand. I'd certainly rather the 9x19 round to shoot compared to the 9x18.

Put it this way: I'll never ever sell my CZ-82. I just don't get rid of guns unless there's something wrong with them. If someone offered to trade me a Hi Power for it though - no matter if it's Argentine or one of the FEG clones or whatever - I'd make the trade in a heartbeat .

 

[mgmorden]

I would also consider looking at a Israeli trade in before a Feg or FM clone

Any good sources on these? Just Gunbroker or do one of the clearing houses have them?

 

[KodiakBeer]

That rules it out right there. I wouldn't CONSIDER any bullet lighter than 124gr. and don't USE anything lighter than 147gr

The 115 grain bullets actually perform better than the 147 grain slugs.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=147

 

[rellascout]

Any good sources on these? Just Gunbroker or do one of the clearing houses have them?

Try Dans Ammo http://www.dansammo.com/

He is in very tight with PW arms who is importing them. He had some choice ones which went for $450 and were already refinished in blue.

 

[KodiakBeer]

The ones I've seen on the auction sites are from Robertson Trading Post: http://www.robertsontradingpost.com/inventory.htm

They only sell through Gunsamerica, GunBroker and AuctionArms.

 

[KodiakBeer]

KodiakBeer, I forgot to ask you in my last post. Have you replaced your recoil spring in your 82? I'm guessing you probably have.

I replaced the recoil spring with the heavier Wolff 18 pounder. It does take the edge off a bit.

I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to wrap my head around the "greatly reduced recoil" comment.

All I can say is that locked breech systems lack the "snap" of blowback pistols. I can shoot the CZ just fine, but there are things I can do with the Hi Power that I just can't do with the CZ. One of them is really tight double taps or "hammers".

 

[KodiakBeer]

Some comparison pix.

FN (Israeli) Hi Power, Kimber compact 1911, Cz 82, FM Argentine Hi Power

 

[Deanimator]

The 115 grain bullets actually perform better than the 147 grain slugs.

Perform "better" HOW?

Box 'o Truth rates the WWB 147gr. JHP very highly, both for penetration and expansion. I've found them very accurate out of my BHP and Glock 19.

I don't like 115gr. 9mms and won't use them.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Perform "better" HOW?

Did you not see the link?

 

[Deanimator]

Did you not see the link?

Again, define "better".

People tell me that 9x19mm FMJs perform "better" than JHPs BECAUSE they're prone to through and throughs. What if my criteria are different? Do they still perform "better"?

 

[KodiakBeer]

Again, define "better".

"Better" is what works in the real world. The best 147 grain bullet has an 80% one shot stop rating. The best 115 grain bullet has a 91% one shot stop rating. This is real world data from police shootings.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=17&Weight=115

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=147

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=115

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

I too am skeptical about that first link with the 4 bad CZs.

 

[bigfatdave]

The diameter of the 9x18mm vs. the 9x19mm isn't enough to bother with.

And you posted that on a site where the bore size difference between .40 and .45 or .355 and .40 inch are a big deal.
Some people can't see beyond bore size, and 9mm mak is wider than 9mm luger

===

Check out this video. Shows the recoil of 82 pretty well.

I see no appreciable recoil with a less-than-effective cup & saucer grip. And my CZ82 experience with the stock spring (of unknown age in years or rounds) is the same. Straight-back recoil and right back on target.

 

[Deanimator]

Some people can't see beyond bore size, and 9mm mak is wider than 9mm luger

I can sure see beyond bore size. That's why outside of the gun, the difference in bullet diameter between a 9x18mm and a 9x19mm is inconsequential.

 

[Pilot]

Personally I think the BHP is a better all around gun. It is a perfect length for home and range work. It is more accurate from a mechnical standpoint than 99% of shooters are capable of. It conceals well like a 1911 commander sized pistol because of its slimness. The CZ82 is almost the same width in the grip which IMHO is the hardest part of the gun to conceal properly. With the right IWB holster and belt the BHP is no harder to carry than the CZ82.

I would also consider looking at a Israeli trade in before a Feg or FM clone. They can be had for less than $400 or refinished for about $450 and they are real MKIII Hi powers.

This is pretty much what I think. Two different calibers, two different manual of arms. An FN made BHP is hard to beat. Its just one of the best all around pistols out there for range, HD and carry. There are a few guns you just got to have and the BHP is one of them.

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a CZ-82 or 83 if you decide to go that route. Great guns in their own right.

 

[Fastcast]

There's been a lot of good points and comments in this thread! My CZ-82 mics out at its widest point, by the ambi mag release, at 1.36" ...... at the base of the grip and by the ambi safety 1.23"

I don't have a HP in front of me to measure but from what I recall it's not much narrower in the grip area, if at all.

I think KodiakBeer's pictures do a great job of showing just how much bigger the HP is than 82......I still say the 82 is the better, easier carry gun, with its smaller size, ambi controls and different trigger options but the HP gets the "all around" honors.

 

[rellascout]

Great pics Kodakbear... I will add another because I think this angle really tells the story.

The BHP is the about the same width in the grip which is the hardest part of any pistol to conceal. In fact with the right grips, on this gun is a pair of Spegels, the BHP is thinner. I also like navidrex thin micartas because they reduce the grip width of the BHP.

 

[Stringfellow]

In terms of grip size, I suspect you could get pretty thin HP grips if that was a priority. However, the '82's grips have some funky curves and protrusions and I haven't seen any "thin" grips for it. This is a shame, because by my measurements, you could go down to about 1.04" width with some sort of thin aluminum grip (not including ambi controls).

I've been waiting for someone to do a CC version of the '82, with thin grips, melted controls, and left safety only. I have some custom thin wood grips coming, done without thumbrest, etc. I am eager to see if they make the pistol much thinner...

 

[rellascout]

I've been waiting for someone to do a CC version of the '82, with thin grips, melted controls, and left safety only. I have some custom thin wood grips coming, done without thumbrest, etc. I am eager to see if they make the pistol much thinner...

Seems like a waste of money on a sub $200 surplus gun. It would cost you more than you paid for the pistol with minimal gain.

 

[harmon rabb]

Seems like a waste of money on a sub $200 surplus gun. It would cost you more than you paid for the pistol with minimal gain.

Yeah, but it would be cool

 

[KodiakBeer]

Seems like a waste of money on a sub $200 surplus gun. It would cost you more than you paid for the pistol with minimal gain.

Quality isn't always determined by price.

 

[xr1200]

Most of these used Izi hi powers are used miltary surplus and either have chipped up painted finish and are dinged up. Most are FN marked , no browning markings.

These guns are import marked which degrades there value, this seller even has some rare T model hi powers on guns america, for cheap price.

But you have to consider that a FN used military surplus hi power, import marked in good to very good condition is only really worth $250-$400 max

Now look at a used commercial browning hi power in excellent condition sells for $500-$600, which would you buy.

 

[kentucky_smith]

These surplus T's clean up pretty well though, once you get the paint off. Not sure why this one wasn't import marked, nor had a star of David. Came from local store.