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CZ is Purchasing Colt

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by 9mmepiphany, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    It looks like the CZ Group, the parent company of CZ (Česká zbrojovka) is set to purchase all of Colt Manufacturing Company's assets including their Canadian subsidiary.

    Seeing how successful CZ has been and how Colt has struggled since their bankruptcy, I'd say this is a positive sign. It also gives CZ access to future government contracts

    It will be interesting to see how, or if, they blend their Dan Wesson 1911 line-up with the Colt 1911 models

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-cz-in-late-stage-talks-to-acquire-colt/
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  2. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    I shouldn't be so surprised, but somehow it feels like a truly bizarre turn of events.

    Once I get past that feeling, I have a hard time believing that this could be anything other than a positive step.
     
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  3. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  4. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    So, a CZ AR-15?
    I’ll take three...:)

    A Colt-Wesson 1911NM?
    Yes, please!

    A 715 Python?
    Well, now I don’t know what I’m talking about, but it sure does sound cool!:D


    I suppose that hipsters will now find ARs to be cool again? (One can hope...)
     
  5. potmetal

    potmetal Member

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    CZ does seem to have the smarts to run a successful company. Maybe they'll take Colt out of anti-gun Mass.
    It's an interesting move on CZ's part but it's all up in the air about what they will be able to do until we find out what this new administration has in store for us.
     
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  6. golden

    golden Member

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    CZ is a huge gun making operation and much bigger than COLT, so this is a good thing for COLT and CZ. I like both of the guns made by these companies.

    Jim
     
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  7. DJW

    DJW Member

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    I find this very interesting. Hopefully they can make it happen. Definitely interested to see what the future holds for them.
     
  8. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    It will be interesting to see what happens. Personally I think DW has lost their way a little bit. They were nicely positioned between the avg production line 1911 and the semi-custom market but then they pushed the price point of a Valor to over $1800 and then it didn't sell. They replaced it with stuff like the Vigil, TP and Specialist that do not seem to sell so they brought back. Even the Razorback and Pointman are $1500 pistols now. When you start to push toward the $2000 mark you are getting into custom and semi-custom guns.

    I would love to see CZ bring better QC to Colt but not if it pushed their already inflated prices higher. The Colt O1911C was selling as low as $650 and that is a decent price for a 70 series Govt pistol with a NM barrel but now that they are $800+ which is about MSRP they are too expensive for what you get. To me Colts only value is as a base gun for custom builds. The best customer builders know how to work on Colts. They know where the flaws are and they are good at fixing them.

    Full disclosure I am a big Colt Fan and big CZ and Dan Wesson fan. I own a lot of pistols from all 3. I just see a lot of overlap in the 1911 market. The Colt Custom Shop stuff will compete directly with Dan Wesson. I cannot see where they are not going to cannibalize each other.
     
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  9. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I think this will be awesome.
     
  10. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Somehow this thread seems very familiar . . .
     
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  11. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Yet you can't get a "what 1911 to get" thread without folks comparing those $1,800 Dan Wesson's to an $800 Kimber, SIG, S&W, Springfield, Colt, etc., 1911's and then have those same folks say it's not fair to compare the Dan Wesson to a $2,400 Ed Brown.

    The Dan Wesson's are normally a step up from the typical production 1911, but they are also quite a step up in price too.
     
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  12. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I bought both of my Dan Wesson's for less than $1300, new.

    Ok, now that I think on it the Valkyrie was technically used and I paid less than $900 for it, but the original owner bought it new for $1100.

    Before things went crazy most DW lines weren't in Ed Brown territory anymore.
     
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  13. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    That's still $500 (nearly twice the price) of the typical 1911 folks are comparing to a Dan Wesson.
     
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  14. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    True, if folks do that. Personally I don't mess with sub $1000 1911 anymore. I've owned most of the options out here and know what I like (Ruger is the best sub $1000 value, IMO).

    DW belongs in the $1200-$1500 category and are the best common production guns out there, in that range. If you get up near $2K you're in Baer, Brown and some Wilson models and the DW does not, indeed compare well here.

    In my opinion, which is worth as much as ya paid for it. YMMV
     
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  15. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    I don't have feelings for cz one way or the other, I know they're popular but they don't make anything I would want. I don't like colt being sold to a company who's name I can't pronounce but if it keeps colt around for another generation I guess it's for the best.

    Yep, hipsters are big on those cz's :rofl:, glad I'm not the only one who's noticed
     
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  16. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    Maybe they’ll make the 40B again, but a 9B this time...
     
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  17. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    The Valkyrie was a $2,012 MSRP pistol. It only dropped to the $1100 mark once they discontinued them and they were sold to a wholesaler. It is actually an example of what DW did wrong. They built $2000 pistols and they could not compete. Ask me how I know.... At $1100 they were a steal at $2,000 they were a hard pass.

    z5tCWA5.jpg


    I personally never recommend a DW unless the person can stretch to over $1000 and then I recommend say look at the Pointman or the Heritage which sometimes can be had for just over $1100. I think when someone asks what is the best $1000 1911 it is worth mentioning the DW base pistols. It is not a 100% upcharge. If someone is looking for a $500 1911 I recommend a Glock 19.

    Valors if you can get them in the $1500 range are still good values. It is almost impossible to find them NIB for that these days. Even the stainless ends up being more. Whenever you talk 1911s price is an issue because really the sky is the limit. You can spend $500 and get a cast frame, forged barrel and MIM parts or you can have someone build you a bespoke pistol.

    For me the point of diminishing returns is the Dan Wesson Valor. After that point you are only getting incremental gains in fit, finish and performance. If a Tisas 1911 that does not run is the bottom of the scale and a Jason Burton or Ted Yost is a 10 the Dan Wesson is a easy 7. The cost to get from 7 to 10 is about 3.5 to 4x the MSRP of Valor. It does not mean it is not worth is but it is paying a lot of money for incremental gains. I still think it is worth it. This was built on a Colt 70 Series NM which was a hell of a base gun by Don Williams. Not a Yost but its a solid 8.5+ IMHO.

    uJJO28H.jpg

    YijqRWk.jpg

    RJAsAs8.jpg

    When you get over $2500 people always talk about Wilson, Baer, Ed Brown, NightHawk etc but these days that will only get you a basic gun from them. I paid that for a Colt Hawk.

    The best value in the semi-custom world today IMHO is Alchemy Custom. Their Prime starting at $3200 is one hell of a 1911. It is hard use 1911 with classic styling sub 1.25" accuracy at 25 yards guaranteed and built the right way.

    x48KV0vZRHKoQ5BALOdQ.jpg

    I think this is correct. Dan Wesson was at its best when it was making high quality production level guns. $1200 guns that were better than the SA Loaded, Colt Combat Elites etc.... The extra $300-$400 was worth the overall quality. They owned that market but then priced themselves out of it.

    So that is the problem I see with them taking over Colt. Colts base pistol is $700-$800. They sell upgraded production pistols for $900-$2400 There is a lot of overlap between the Colt Elite Govt and the DW Heritage, the Combat Elite and the Valor etc....

    The only way I see it working is Colt taking over the old DW space and DW going to a semi custom shop like Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson etc....
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  18. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I was unaware they ever discontinued the CCO Valkyrie (Commander, yes) as far as I can tell they are still on he catalogue.

    But yes, mine is nice, but not $2000 MSRP nice, not by a long shot.
     
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  19. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    I've been hoping a company with deep pockets and a significant market presence (ahem, Ruger) would step in and save Colt. I've also wondered why anyone would want to. Surely they'll have to get Colt production out of CT and away from the UAW.
     
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  20. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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  21. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Huh, that's pretty new to me. They were certainly on there when I got mine, then gain that was a couple years ago.

    Not sure about the specifics of the purchase and contracts but I do wonder if they mostly wanted Colts various military contracts and try to breach the US/Canadian military market.
     
  22. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw the thread in GGD and started this for two reasons
    1. For folks who don't ever go to GGD
    2. To focus discussion on the 1911/semi-auto lineup and the effect the blending will have
     
  23. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually I think DW does belong up there, especially at the entry level of the semi-custom 1911 (gosh I hate that term) market. Granted I think a correctly built 1911 is correctly priced in the $2500 price point. (SA Professional)

    What I see is CZ using Colt as an entry level (~$1000) 1911 where buyers who are less knowledgeable are more influenced by name recognition than actual function. Then moving DW up market by dropping any model offered at less than $2k...sort of like Colt being Toyota to DW being Lexus
     
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  24. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    I love 1911’s but I don’t have any. I own several 2011 STI. If CZ is getting into the colt 1911 game. It’s a home run!
     
  25. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    So would they get rid of the Colt Custom shop or would they use DW to make those guns? Would DW stop being a production gun? What is a better term than semi-custom for a gun with "custom" features that most people buy off the shelf or order with only a limited number of customization options? In most of these shops multiple people work on your gun in a small format production line. It does not make them bad but it makes them well "semi-custom".
     
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