CZ... so many choices...

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v35

v35

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I've decided that my next purchase will be a 9mm, and I've read enough about the virtues of CZ's product line to be sold on one of them. One or more, that is, but as much as my id desires it, my ego says I can't have everything right now.

The purpose is primarily target practice and perhaps IDPA competition, secondarily home defense, a distant third priority is a CCW but I'll probably get one of those ugly Glock 19s to eventually replace an HK for that purpose. Why 9mm? It's cheap so I can afford to shoot lots and lots of it, and I already have a .40 cal for defense.

Here is my list of wants. The problem is that CZ has so many choices. I'm undecided about which of them will satisfy the majority of my requirements, so I'm hoping I can get some enlightened opinions.

Must have:

All metal construction (I have enough plastic guns)
SA/DA
Decocker safety
Large capacity magazines (14 or more)
Night Sights

Nice to have - I can be talked out of these:

Adjustable sights
Accessory rail
Different finish options (satin nickel is nice)

So far I'm considering the SP-01, the P-01, the 75D PCR Compact, and the 85 Combat.

The SP-01 has most of the features I want, but I'm confused about the safety. CZ's website says it has a safety, but there's one advertised (impactguns.com) with a decocker. The magazine capacity is huge, but I'm concerned the gun might be just too big. For the purposes I've outlined, is that concern warranted?

I like the P-01 and PCR specs, looks like they would be a pretty good carry weapons. I like the alloy frame too. But will their shorter length be a detriment to target practice? Will the heavier SP-01 be more pleasant to shoot?

I handled a CZ 85 Combat at a gun store and loved it - it has the look and feel of quality construction and it fit my hand fine. Although dry firing is hardly scientific, I liked how the trigger felt. Is the trigger feel typical of CZ? I like the adjustable sights, but is that really a concern? Just when is it required that you adjust sights anyway? And it doesn't have a decocker, but neither does the SP-01 except for the one advertised for sale, so now I'm wondering if a decocker version is available. Has anyone seen one?

Is the huge magazine used in the SP-01 usable in the other models?

I'm not really familar with SA/DA since I've only carried the HK DAO and carry it in Condition 1. Can you do that with the CZ SA/DA with decocker?

Why do the prices on impactguns.com keep changing? :eek:

Finally: Why is this so difficult :)
 
if its a range/competition gun first, I'd go with a full size, so the SP01 or CZ85 of your choices. Then later, get a P01 or PCR for carry:D

I just bought a CZ85B (non-combat) and absolutely love it.
 
I am going through the same decision process as you, and severely racking my brain. To this point it seems I've read probably everything ever written about CZ's and have handled nearly all of them in my quest for my first CZ. Here are my thoughts...

For what you described, either the CZ75b or 85b/85 Combat would be perfect. These are full size duty weapons with 16 round mags.

The 75b or 85b have a firing pin block safety. The 85 Combat doesn't. Having the firing pin block safety affects the trigger pull, but I don't believe it is a major issue. The firing pin block safety will prevent a discharge if the pistol is dropped allowing the firing pin to move forward with sufficient force to pop a primer. I'm not sure this is a major issue, as people have been doing fine with Series 70 1911's for years (no firing pin block).

These pistols are all SA/DA, they do not have a Decocker. You can carry them Condition 1 Cocked and Locked or DA for the first shot. BTW, you can't carry a DAO pistol in Condition 1. Condition 1 is when the hammer is fully to the rear and the safety is placed on. When the safety is moved to the off position the pistol will fire in single action. You can also carry the pistol in DA (for the first shot) by carefully lowering the hammer on a chambered round with the gun pointed in a safe direction (not as scary or unsafe as it sounds).

Only the 85 Combat comes with adjustable sights, which are a nice feature to allow you to dial in your load (IDPA vs. SD if they are different).

The 85b and 85 Combat have an ambidextrous safety. The new 75b in stainless does too, but the rest of the 75b's don't.

The SP01 is large. The P01 and PCR are more tilted toward CCW, which is not a major requirement for you. You can carry the 75b/85b/85 Combat if you have too, although, not as comfortably as the P01 or PCR as they are smaller and have lighter alloy frames.

The 75b/85b/85 Combat also have longer sight radiuses and are heavier than the P01/PCR so they are better target guns.

The CZ decockers make the pistol more mechanically complex and many gunsmiths won't work on them for that reason (ie. small parts and spring). Is this an issue, probably not a major one, since the P01 passed some pretty stringent test trials to become NATO approved. This depends on what you are comfortable with.

As to finishes, in order of durability: Stainless, Nickel, black polycoat, blue.

As to the rails - I think they are more fad than necessity. On the P01 they add more weight to the muzzle of the gun, which I personally like on that model.

I hope that made your decision easier.

Be safe.
 
BTW, your must haves in your post are a bit misleading...

You can have either SA/DA or Decocker, not both.
The Decocker is not a safety it just drops the hammer so the first shot is DA like a Sig Sauer.

Night sights are an aftermarket proposition. CZ paints their sights with a flourescent paint - seems cheesy to me.

Its difficult, but its good to have choices...
 
I noted the new CZ75 stainless has a reversable magazine release. The older CZ85s did not. Did they move to the new style reversible magazine release for the new CZ85s or are they still not reversable?
 
my BNIB CZ85B didnt have a provision for swapping as far as i can tell. Not that I would, as I use my trigger finger to release the mag (and slide for that matter)
 
It appears I'm confused about the decocker and SA/DA... I had assumed that you would carry a weapon with a conventional safety lever in the "safe" position but perhaps this isn't so. I've trained on an HK DAO with no safety and that's what I'm used to... it's idiot-proof; no safety to remember in a high-stress situation, and once you release the trigger it's as safe as can be. Can you safely carry a SA/DA with safety in the "fire" position? If that's the case perhaps I've placed too much emphasis on a decocker.

CZ advertises some of their SA/DA models have a decocker; I got the impression you're saying they're mutually exclusive so I'm even more confused.

I get the feeling I need an education on decocker vs. manual safety. Why favor one over the other anyway? Can someone compare how I'd operate a SA/DA trigger with safety vs. the HK DAO that I'm used to?

I stand corrected on the HK DAO and Condition One. My HK is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer almost but not quite all the way down. The hammer doesn't go completely back until you pull the trigger aft. If you pull the trigger with the hammer completely down, the pull is ridiculously hard, but this would only happen if the hammer fell on a dead round.

Thanks for the opinions - it's exactly the kind of advice I'm seeking.

Oh I didn't know the "night sights" are just Day-Glo. That doesn't impress me. So the sights I want will be an aftermarket installation, that's ok too.
 
here's what I think I know (about CZs):

Decocker models: carried with the hammer decocked, DA(ish) first shot, SA subsequent shot; done shooting, decock again, place in holster or whatever

DA/SA: can be carried hammer down (like a decocker), so it'd have a DA first shot, and SA subsequent shots. The difference is you cant decock it without using the trigger, and some argue this is unsafe. So you engage the manual safety=cocked and locked. You can also start out in Condition 1 (cocked and locked), draw, disengage safety, and have all shots SA.

anyone more knowledgabe, please correct inaccuracies
 
The SP-01 is not legal for IDPA.
The 75BD, P-01, and PCR can be decocked without pulling the trigger.
The conventional DA/SA guns require the trigger to be pulled to be decocked. If you have an accidental discharge at an IDPA match you are disqualified.
 
The 85b and 85 Combat have an ambidextrous safety. The new 75b in stainless does too, but the rest of the 75b's don't.
Click to expand...
Not quite. The 75B Single Action models (9mm and .40), the 75B DA/SA in 40, and the 75B Compact in .40 have ambi-safeties, too. There may be others.

The other big difference between the 85B/85 Combat and the rest of the CZ guns is the ambidextrous slide release. Neither model has a switchable ambi mag release, however. But some of the newer models (the compacts, especially, allow you to switch the mag release.)

Re: decockers and safeties

Decockers let you drop the fully cocked hammer, as after a shot, when there are still rounds in the gun. You'd do this if you wanted to reholster. (There's no safety that lets you lock the hammer back, so you'd HAVE to decock.).

A safety lets you LOCK the fully cocked hammer. If you're comfortable with Cocked and Lock carry, there's no reason to decock. If you're shooting the gun from hammer down (as you'd have to do in the IDPA Stock Service Pistol Division), you'd decock manually, ignore the safety, and start that way. Decocking is not rocket science, but seems to scare the crap out of people.

A decocker gun forces you to start with a DA trigger pull, and you then transition to a SA pull. A CZ safety model lets you start either way: hammer down or from cocked and locked. Some of us prefer SA starts, as every trigger pull is the same.

CZ doesn't have a model that both decocks and has a safety. A few other guns, including H&Ks, offer models that do.
 
impactguns has this SP-01 with a decocker. But there's no picture, and CZ's website doesn't mention it as an option. Would a decocker version be permitted at an IDPA match?

You could elect to manually pull the hammer back for the first shot, no? Or pull the trigger all the way through, if the force weren't excessive, right? Pardon my ignorance but the HK DAO trigger is all I know.

The only reason I liked the CZ 85 Combat was that it had a nickel finish, which I liked. The ambidextrous controls aren't important for me. I've also come to realize the 85's dimensions are similar to the SP-01.
 
The 85 Combat doesn't automatically come with a nickel finish. That is one of several choices -- nickel, polycoat, two tone, and high-gloss blue. Nickel is far less common than the others, but only costs a bit more. I have a nickel version.

Most of the 85 Combats I've seen were polycoated.

In reference to v35's question above: decockers are legal for IDPA. (Better be, or most SIGs couldn't compete.) And NOBODY, shooting competitively, thumbs cocks for the first shot -- that's too slow and too unsure (forces you to change your grip.)

The CZ decocker models decock to and start from the half-cock notch. That shortens and lightens the trigger pull just a bit.
 
When either a CZ 75B is decocked manually (put your thumb on the hammer, pull the trigger and lower the hammer by hand) or a CZ 75BD is decocked using the decocking lever, then the first shot operates just like your HK DAO -- pull the trigger and the gun goes "BANG". With both models, that action will leave the hammer cocked and subsequent shots will be single action. What that really translates to is that the first (DA) shot is a very heavy trigger pull and the follow-on (SA) shots are lighter -- because you don't have to work as hard since the gun is already cocked.

Many people don't like that because you have to get used to two different trigger pulls depending on which mode (DA or SA) you're in.

With the CZ 75B model, you can leave the hammer cocked and the safety engaged ("cocked and locked"). That makes your first shot SA -- but you have to remember to remove the safety before you can fire. Many people don't like that because there's a chance you may forget under stress and hear "Click" instead of "BANG".

The CZ 75BD model CANNOT be safely carried with the hammer cocked. That's an invitation to an ND....so DA is the only choice for your first shot with that model.

You're probably getting way more tutorial in gun actions than you wanted, but I hope it helps.

Jim
 
Actually it seems I do need the tutorial :) and it's appreciated.

I'm leaning toward the SP-01 Tactical - that's the one with the decocker.
 
I dont care for CZ's decock system, and the safety only works in SA. The very long trigger on my CZ75B, in hammer down, is safety enough! Holstering in the half cock position helps with the DA pull, and is still plenty safe to carry. If you are right handed, the 75B is perfect!:)
 
Thanks Walt for filling in the blanks...!

CZ's have a cult-like following, you'll see why when you shoot one.
 
I've had a CZ-75B and CZ-75D PCR for several years. If you're going to carry it, I'd recommend the PCR over all the other CZ-75's. Its very accurate and rivals my full size 75B at the range, but its also a great carry gun. I like it over the similar P-01 as its slimmer in the muzzle due to the lack of a light rail. No need for a G19, the PCR is about the same size and has an alloy frame as you note.
 
Finally: Why is this so difficult
Click to expand...
One man's difficulty is another man's joy. :)
Decisions decisions decisions.
Keep it simple at first.
Add to your CZ collection later with another model.
You can decock by lever or by hand.
If by lever, don't plan on carrying C&L (condition 1)
Buy them soon as prices seem to keep climbing as more US shooters discover the World of CZ. (I paid $329 for my 75b and $269 for my 83, a few years back, so prices haven't gone up that much).
Steel frame is heavy, which is both good and/or bad depending on method of carry.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
 
"Would a decocker version be permitted at an IDPA match?"
NO. No version of the SP-01 is legal for IDPA competition.
Click to expand...
May I ask why?

What are the criteria?
 
"Quote:
"Would a decocker version be permitted at an IDPA match?"
NO. No version of the SP-01 is legal for IDPA competition.
May I ask why?

What are the criteria?"

http://www.idpa.com

I don't make the rules. Bill Wilson does. I don't necessarily agree with them either. I would LOVE to have a SP-01 Tactical decocker but since I can't shoot it in IDPA I don't own one. If I could I would have had one a long time ago.

I believe the reasons given had something to do with weight and also the light rail.

For a definitive answer I wouldn't take of the word of anyone here (including me) I would either contact IDPA headquarters or go over to CZshooters.com and ask Matthew Mink (Team CZ shooter).
 
Thanks Gary - I only glossed over the IDPA criteria, but the only item that may apply in the SSP division might be the number of production units. I can't find any criteria that would exclude the SP-01 from the ESP division. Dimensionally, it's big and heavy but still within limits as far as I can tell. What am I missing?
 
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