CZ-52, Tokarev, or Makarov

[psyshack]

52 all the way. I don't see mine as a collectible pistol. But it sure is a clean and great shooting pistol.

Mine was not one of those rearsenal pistols thank god. Gray Park, Cast Firing Pin, all original. Striped it down put new firing pin, rollers in. Cleaned up the trigger a tad. Took out about 90% or better of the comblock machining marks and reparked it.

It's a fantastic pistol.

 

[toivo]

For a fun range gun, get whichever one tickles your fancy the most. See if you can try all three out somehow.

For a gun you might actually carry, I'd say the Makarov, or better yet, a CZ-82. I just bought my second 82. They're very accurate pistols with a good trigger. A Makarov is slimmer because it's single-stack, but I like having the 12+1 capacity of the CZ, especially being in NY State where the only way we can have mags that are >10 is if they're pre-94.

 

[WardenWolf]

I own both a Makarov and a Tokarev. My Tokarev is my favorite range gun. It's accurate, and its recoil is perfectly matched to its grip angle so it jumps right back on target after you shoot. It's also powerful, and puts out one heck of a muzzle flash. It's a pretty nice gun. The Makarov is great, too. I love the Makarov for its features and accuracy. It's got a great safety, easy disassembly, and great reliability. I really can't complain about either gun.

 

[Bmac1949]

I have a Mak that I like alot. I can't say that it's a great range gun. It just isn't that fun to shoot if that is what you're looking for, but it is accurate and dependable for sure. I carry it in my truck when I'm traveling. I do bring it to the range but for fun I pull out the 1911.

 

[WardenWolf]

There's a company that makes rubber grips for the Makarov that make it a lot of fun to shoot. Marschal wood grips also help over the stock grips.

 

[Col. Plink]

+1 on CZ-52.

No Mak's unless you can get the Spesnos (sp?) self-cycling holster.

 

[amd6547]

I have owned all three of these pistols.
Of the three pistols named, if I had to go to war with one, it would be the Tokarev, without a doubt.

 

[toivo]

Of the three pistols named, if I had to go to war with one, it would be the Tokarev, without a doubt.

What about if you were just going to the range with one? Would that be your choice?

 

[harmon rabb]

What about if you were just going to the range with one? Would that be your choice?

Absolutely. The tok is a hoot at the range.

 

[Smaug]

I shot a Tokarev today. A Polish guy next to me had one. He said he had one in the army back in his service days.

He said it shot way low for him. He let me try a magazine, and I shot it right on the money at 7 yds. It was very fun. I've not shot a CZ-82, but I'm trying to acquire one now. I shot a Makarov, and the Tokarev is more fun at the range. It is about the same size as a 1911, but the recoil is much less. The owner said the ammo is cheap too, $5 for 70 rounds. (Polish arsenal surplus, while it lasts)

CZ-52s are more rare and a little more modern looking than the Tokarevs. That doesn't necessarily make them better. When I see the vertical grooves on the Tok, I think "Communist China."

Back in WW2, the Germans did some ballistics research (probably on captured "volunteers") that proved larger calibers are more effective. Prior to that, 9mm wasn't the standard caliber. It was out there, but so was the 30 Luger. (which I think is 7.62x25)

Now, it seems the trend is back to smaller calibers, with the 5.7 mm stuff.

 

[Snowdog]

I've been looking at some Yugo M57 reviews and I've been seeing TONS of problems. Things like 25 pound trigger pulls, bad accuracy, only firing after 2 trigger pulls, and problems with bore diameters. Are all these problems worst case scenario? did they get bad pistols? I'm starting to worry about getting a Tok because If it has a 20 lb trigger... and anyone have accuracy experience on the Yugo models in particular? The Yugo M57 model is what I'm mainly looking at now because I can't find any Romanian ones

Both my M57s are wonderful. Though I haven't taken a scale to the trigger, I can tell you they're not anywhere near 20lbs. It's a single action, for goodness' sake. Unless there's something being rubbed against within the internals somewhere, I can't see how a 20lb trigger is even possible.
Both mine are somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds, I'd venture to say.

Overall, I'm quite fond of the M57 (which is why I bought two).

 

[kawika850]

cz52 and tok

I have personally owned both a 52 and tok. I had to sell them due to a loss of a job.
I like the 52 because it has an "intimidation" factor. it looks big and has a tremendous muzzle flash.
the TOK is much smaller and has less of an "intimidation" factor.

differences:
52
Named because the Czek gov't created it in 1952. it served for a couple of years before being replaced. it was made to fire hotter ammunition. it had a MG42 locking mech. Two cylinders locked the breach (in case of an overpowered round) I have seen pictures of a 52 that had a too hot round. the owner survived because of the design.

TOK
the tok was orginally designed to handle the .30 c96 Broom handle round (modified). if you look at the rounds, they are very similar. But, do not fire a .30 Mauser rnd in an Tok and Vice versa. you may have a rupture case.

Another important fact:
TOK 7.62x25 ammo was in three different types:
1. PPSH 41 - this is extremely hot ammo designed to operate an extremely stiff action. IT IS NOT TO BE USED IN THE TT33. I do not know how much more plainly to say that.
2. TOK TT33 - this ammo was designed to operate the pistol. it is safe to use in the 52 and TT33. TT33 ammo may cause feeding problems (due to the "colder" charge) in the 52.
3. 52 ammo - the Czeks created a hotter rnd for the 52. it may look like a 33 round, but it is hotter. Some have said that the PPSH 41/42 ammo can be used in the 52, but I would not for safety rounds. Bulgarian ammo is infamous for that "hot" quality.

What gun would I want?
As a concealed gun, the tt33 is an excellent gun. it is about the same size of a 1911. it is thinner and more easily concealed.
As a side arm, I would want the 52.
Important notes on the 52
1. replace the safety - the decocker and safety are the same. they wear out and will cause a discharge if placed on decock (without replacing it)
2. replace the two rollers with a Harrington hardened roller. the Harrington roller is much harder then the original
3. replace firing pin. Again, the original is made of a cheap metal. dry firing it will cause the pin to break.
Now that I have written that, I will still want the 52 as an open carry gun. it is the same size of a m9 Barretta. the flame shooting out of the muzzle will scare anyone.

it is true that the tt33 is not a pointing gun. it takes practice to do so (and I managed [with lots of practice]) to do so)

both have 8 rnds of ammo in a clip.

you can purchase .223 timbs for the 52 (AND NOT FOR THE TOK). .223 timbs is a .30 coller holding a .223 round. this puts the timbs at 2k fps out of the barrell. that is 200 feet per second out of the barrel. put a standard .223 (ball ammo) in that round and you have a deadly round capable of penetrating a great deal of material.

the average velocity for a tok is about 1200 fps
the average velocity for a 52 is about 1400-1600 fps

the velocity for a 7.62x25 jhp is about 1600 fps (yes, you can buy 7.62x25 jhp rnds for both the tok and 52.)

this comes from personal first hand experience with both pistols.

the nice thing about the tok is that you can buy 9x19mm mags and barells. this makes it a pistol that you can purchase rnds almost anywhere. the 9mm barell just fits in the 33 pistol (with a special 9mm bushing). you can even use the 33 mags for 9mm. I would suggest that you purchase the 9mm mags. you will not have the feeding problems as if you used the 33 mags.

I hope this aided some.

 

[kawika850]

more 52 info

an easy method to test if your 52 is not safe to decock:
take a standard Num2 pencil. put a piece of tape on the eraser.
Ensure that it is a completely new pencil that has never been used.

remove the mag
clear the weapon (visually check for a clear chamber)
do not re-insert the mag (at all)
take the pencil and place it (eraser towards the firing pin)
fully cock the pistol
decock the pistol
if the tape or the pencil moves, then your safety and decocker (a single unit) is malfunctioning. this may cause a discharge when decocking.
take the pistol to a qualified gunsmith and have him take a look at it.

If you must fire it, just take the time to leave an empty chamber and rack the slide only when actually firing it. if you must, clear the chamber after firing it and re-insert the mag. if you feel comfortable with the decocker and the gun smith does so also, use it as designed.

I have personally taken the 52 down to the frame on multiple occasions. I do mean down to the frame. I am not talking or writing about something that I do not know of or am male bovine deficating you. I the re-assembled the 52 to perfect working order.

 

[kawika850]

the 52 draws a crowd when it discharges the muzzle flame. it will get looks.

 

[Snowdog]

Truth of the matter is the Tokarev and CZ-52 generate the exact same "flames". The reason it because it fires the exact same ammunition. Can I tell the difference between the muzzle flash and report between my CZ-52 and M57s? No, nor can anyone else... because there isn't one.

The CZ-52 probably would win in an "intimidation" contest because of its bulky appearance. However, I would much rather have a Tok than a CZ-52 as they simply fit me better (especially the M57 with its longer grip).

Though I have yet to chrono loads from my M57s, I would venture to say with confidence that there is no discernible difference in velocity between the CZ-52 and Tokarev, again because it's the same cartridge. If a cartridge will yield 1500 fps from a CZ-52, it will do the same for the Tok (why wouldn't it... the laws of physics don't change because a pistol uses a roller lock mechanism).

 

[blindhari]

I live close to J&G in Az. I went over and they gave me a choice of three random pull Yugo M57 Tokarev.for $199 and 140 rounds of Polish milsurp for $10. Home I went with pistol, holster, cleaning rod, ammo and way too much cosmoline. Took apart Tok and steamed, used WD40 to lift last of cosmoline and water. Down to the range with the aftermarket safety in my pocket. 140 rds and no hiccups at all. Recoil nowhere near as ad as a 38 snub. Hand not sore after 140 rds. Back to J&G picked up another M57 and another 3600 rds of milsurp. Home with it all. clean new gun and back to range 210 rds no misfires. Talk about fun I have two battle proven military side arms, two holsters, two cleaning rods and 4000 rds of ammo for less than the price of 4000 rds of bulk pack 38 special. Think about it.

blindhari

 

[Shadow 7D]

kawika850

Another important fact:
TOK 7.62x25 ammo was in three different types:
1. PPSH 41 - this is extremely hot ammo designed to operate an extremely stiff action. IT IS NOT TO BE USED IN THE TT33. I do not know how much more plainly to say that.
2. TOK TT33 - this ammo was designed to operate the pistol. it is safe to use in the 52 and TT33. TT33 ammo may cause feeding problems (due to the "colder" charge) in the 52.
3. 52 ammo - the Czeks created a hotter rnd for the 52. it may look like a 33 round, but it is hotter. Some have said that the PPSH 41/42 ammo can be used in the 52, but I would not for safety rounds. Bulgarian ammo is infamous for that "hot" quality

Great, so you hang out on the internet, gun shop and maybe even the range...
Now if you can only back up your BS

The Czechs did/do make a special round, and some pistols have trouble with it...
BUT IT'S IN 9x18mm Makarov So.... if you are shooting 9mm vz. 82
out of a conventionally rifled blowback operated pistol (say a FEG PA-63, which it was often bundled with) you get problems...

People have been telling about the 'PPSH' ammo for a long time, yet, other than crappy quality control, nobody has been able to find a case of this stuff...

So...I could claim that the CZ52 is the weaker gun, because it was designed to shoot 9mm NATO..
Oh and there is an ongoing debate, as the CZ operated on a 'roller DELAYED blowback system' and has the chamber undermined at two points to accommodate the rollers, versus a Browning design locking system and full chamber of the Tokarev, a number of writers have stated that the Tokarev should be able to withstand heavy loads better than the CZ52.

 

[Hondo 60]

Bought a Zastava M57 Tokarev from J&G back in Feb.
The first spam can of ammo (Polish - also from J&G) is almost gone (1,260 rounds).
I chrono'd them at roughly 1500 fps.
That brass goes flying!

My buddy accidentally shot out a light bulb (with the brass)
He was sitting under an overhead light fixture & the brass shot up about 6-8 ft & busted the bulb.

I like the gun very much!
It's a single stack 8 rd mag, so it's thin.
Seeing I have short fingers, I have problems with many guns.
They're too thick or too wide.
This one is like Baby Bear's porridge & bed - it's just right.

 

[woad_yurt]

Get 'em all!

I had to chime in here. I think the Com Bloc weapons are gems of simplicity.

There are only a couple I don't like; the CZ 82 is one because it slapped the pad of my trigger finger something vicious. For everyone else without the same problem, it's a great gun. The Polish P64 is a great gun, too, and worked well with a Wolff spring; shot great. Recoil and sharp edges just hurt my finger.

Toks, I love. Norinco made a 9MM Tok, the Model 213, that's like a target pistol. The 7.62 one is no slouch but the 9MM is just stunningly accurate. Although I prefer the Norincos, I really like Toks of any flavor. They're an easy carry, too, really flat, and Wolf makes a pretty good hollowpoint for it. Regarding the safety, it's easily removable. If one leaves it on 1/2 cock; it's just cock and shoot.

Gotta have a Makarov, my all-time favorite semi-auto pistol. It's the perfect utility pistol. I feel that it's the only semi as reliable as a Model 10. When I have a newbie along to the range, I bring it. Everyone shoots it well.

I think CZ 52s have a bad reputation because most of the ones I've seen weren't re-arseneled or whatever they called it. They were just made to look better. A majority of the pins I've seen have needed re-peening, for example. When they're tight and 100% up-to-spec, with a different firing pin and some real springs, they're great pistols. They're also very, very easy to work on and cheaply tweak.

Don't forget the Feg PA-63. With some realistic springs from Wolff ($15-$20) it becomes a nice, lightweight, accurate and ultra-reliable carry gun. I got rid of the thumb bump on the left grip, though.

Get all of 'em. For real. They're the Dodge Darts of the gun world, nothing fancy, just simple & dependable. The 7.62 round is a scorcher, too. There's lots to like about Com Bloc weapons.

This CZ is sooo accurate:

​

 

[stanmo]

I have an EG Mak and a yugo M-57. They are both great examples of simplicity, durability, and accuracy. As previously stated the M-57 for goin'-to-war and range fun and the Mak for carry.

The M-57 has 9 round mags not 8. I favor the longer grip. You can't use other T-33 mags, but I read somewhere you can modify CZ-52 mags to fit.

The M-57 safety is the best of the bunch, it looks "factory" to me.

A 20lb trigger on a M-57, no way.

 

[Animal Mother]

I own all of these, and my personal favorite is the Makarov - the CZ-82. The others are also nice, without a doubt, but if I could have only one, it would be the CZ-82.

 

[harmon rabb]

I own all of these, and my personal favorite is the Makarov - the CZ-82. The others are also nice, without a doubt, but if I could have only one, it would be the CZ-82.

a cz-82 is not a makarov. there are a bunch of comm bloc guns that fire the 9mm makarov round, but only one of them is the makarov.

this is the one and only makarov:

 

[Devonai]

I just picked up a IJ-70 yesterday, but after visiting three stores I couldn't find any ammo for it. I guess I'll have to hit up CTD or the Sportsman's Guide.

What I'm really having trouble finding are spare mags. Florida Gun Works is the only shop my Google-Fu could locate that actually had any in stock, but their minimum shipping fee is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone have a line on a source for spare Makarov mags?

 

[Animal Mother]

a cz-82 is not a makarov. there are a bunch of comm bloc guns that fire the 9mm makarov round, but only one of them is the makarov.

Yes but IMHO, the CZ-82 is better than the Makarov, but only slightly.

 

[toivo]

There are only a couple I don't like; the CZ 82 is one because it slapped the pad of my trigger finger something vicious. For everyone else without the same problem, it's a great gun. The Polish P64 is a great gun, too, and worked well with a Wolff spring; shot great. Recoil and sharp edges just hurt my finger.

Stop your petty-bourgeois capitalist consumerist individualist whining! We gave you a pistol--now take it and go out and build the glorious socialist world of the future!