DA shooting and long term health effects

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buzz meeks

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Hello. I'm reaching my mid-thirties and some shooting-related health issues are starting to rear their ugly heads. Basically, I have some tendonitis in my forearm and some repetitive stress pains that are as yet undiagnosed. Feels a bit like CTS but not completely. Also, I have some old breaks in my strong hand that feel a bit arthritic at times. Sometimes after a day of shooting, and for a day or two thereafter, my hand and wrist are sore and stiff.

The first thing I intend to do is go get a doctor's advice and/or treatment because I intend to shoot handguns well into old age. But I also want to know if double-action revolver shooting is going to harm me. I know internet medical advice is worth exactly what I paid for it, but what do you folks think? What's your experience been? So again, will a modest volume of double action revolver shooting- say one hundred live rounds a week and ten times that dry fire a week- cause me more injury and grief? Or are there possibly any benefits?

Thanks in advance for you input and thanks also for a great forum.
 
See your doctor ASAP. It could be "something" other than your shooting. Your "level" of firing does not seem excessive, however, you don't say if your shooting .38s or full house .44 mags. Talk to "sports professional" medical if your own doctor is no help. I'm with you, as for age, slowing me down. I keep a set of "hand excersize" squessers by my chair to use whenever I'm watching "the tube." Hope this helps.
 
I am 70 and have shot a lot of DA (hundreds of rounds a week at times) and never had any problem. That does not, of course, mean no one else will.

I would also consider recoil; most of my DA shooting was with wadcutter ammo or moderate loads. Recoil of a big gun such as a .45 auto or bigger can damage the cartilage and joints of the wrist and elbow, ultimately causing severe pain and permanent disability. It is possible that autoloaders, which tend to recoil back rather than roll in the hand, are worse in this respect.

You could also be a victim of trying to use a "death grip" on the gun, something some "experts" recommend, but which is not at all necessary for accurate shooting.

I agree with talking to your doctor and experts in sports medicine as soon as possible. If worst comes to worst, shooting with the other hand is a way to at least give the strong hand a rest.

Jim
 
One problem that seems to happen as we get older is arthritis and muscle control. I find that shooting my DA revolvers has actually helped. But I also only drive manual shift cars to maintain coordination and dexterity as well. Moderate amounts of exercise seems to be one of the only things that we can do to maintain our capabilities as we age.
 
I've found it helps to take aspirin before leaving for the range, and drink lots of water.

I've had extremely poor success with medical doctors and nurses, but good success with chiropractors and massage therapists.
 
buzz meeks .. welcome to THR! :)

Up until 1974 I practiced as an osteopath ... long time ago but i still remember quite a bit.

Some of us, and not necessarily even age related that much .. seem to have a biochemistry and soft tissue chemistry that predisposes us toward stress and repetition related injuries.

I know - I am that animal!

I have to be careful with mouse useage ... as I work on puter most of time (RSI prone) .. also I can well imagine that a lot of dry firing will quite possibly affect you that way - I have to limit mine. Arthritic (degenerative change) post-fractures can too for sure be yet another component of the whole.

If repetition does on self analysis seem indeed to ''tie in'' then you must reduce this to a level that is tolerable ... i.e., do not purposely increase the symptoms.

The tendinitis aspect occurs when there is an inflammatory response beteen the tendon itself and the surrounding sheath .. cause initially often hard to pin down. But once it starts then one of the ways to control it is reduction of repetitious moves.

There should be normally a lubricant between tendon and sheath .. pretty much synovial fluid like in joints ... if this is reduced/deficient then inflammation thru repetition is well possible.

It can be beneficial when there are symptoms .. to use an ice pack .. or frozen gel pack ... the cold seems to help stimulate after removal .. a well increased blood flow in the area .. and this in itself can be theraputic. Cortico-steroids can help too but I am not keen on these ... benefits are usually short term, tho initially anti-inflammatory.

Sorry - I waffle .. it's normal.!:p
 
I've gotten to the point that I now must be careful with heavy loads - particularly in Double action guns. My wrist has some kind of tendon problem which will never rear it's ugly head unless I start pounding the heavy loads out of my .45 Long Colts.

The Ruger Bisley seems to allow me the most shooting of heavy loads without problem. The Blackhawk is OKish, if I'm careful. But sold my Dan Wesson Double action because of all the grief it would cause me.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far, folks. I didn't mention it before but my double-action shooting is split neatly in half between .38 Special (a 158 at 800-ish) from one of two j-frames and .357 Magnum (a 158 at 1150ish) from either an M13 or an M28. Nothing too extreme in the recoil department.

Thanks also to those of you who have urged me to see an MD. I'm on it. These symptoms I described have only recently become chronic. And I really hate to hear what the good doctor has to say. "Well, as a person ages..." or, "A person of your age should expect..." Good Lord, I'm only 33.

I also want to rephrase my original question a little bit. It would seem that DA shooting represents a repetitive motion in itself. So am I risking a repetitive stress injury from shooting too much? Is there another action type that's easier from this perspective? SA auto? Glocks?

Thanks again. Go Patriots.
 
I would think DA shooting would just be finger exercise. At 50 the shooting you are doing shouldn't be an issue, let alone 30ish.
 
If you indeed have CTS, double action shooting will affect it. In fact SA shooting will. Anything that is repetative in nature that has to do with the fingers and wrists can cause it to flare. Try to keep your wrist perfectly straight and take the shock in your elbows. Don't lock your elbows and let your wrists pivot from the shock; that's inviting disaster with CTS. (Mine came from doing extra weight dips during exercise; now I am conscious of every move involving wrist)

I also have developing Arthritis in left wrist from breaking it in six places when I was 14. Luckily it's not my shooting hand most of the time.

CTS can be lived with, without surgery, if you take precautions and make adjustments to certain ways of doing things.
 
I would think DA shooting would just be finger exercise.
Click to expand...
True Sean but as Stevie points out - the repetitive nature is the prob'.

Even apparently simple use of the finger is actually involving more than might be realized. The main flexor and extensor muscles in the arm, that actuate hand and digits .. come from common origins .. the extensors on the lateral condyle area of elbow (the ''bump'' on outer side just below elbow joint) ... and the flexors from the medial (inner) condyle (''bump''!) .... the muscles fan out from there.

Whilst maintaining a grip and using just the index finger ... the repeated strains can be enough to produce a ''tennis elbow'' type problem at these origins. Take that further and go down to wrist ... then we have the carpal tunnel region .. where a lot of tendons in sheaths pass thru ..... and as mentioned in my previous post .. if they are a tad ''dry'' thru lack of synovial lubrication then inflammatory responses can be set up ... and maintained/worsened thru the repetition.

Broadly - control of useage is preferable to medical intervention ... unless very serious ...... even surgey itself can enhance the problem sometimes. And cortico-steroids too - are limited in effect ... being mainly short term very often.
 
Does anyone know if there are any herbal or other suppliments that actually have more than a placebo effect?
 
DBR . no specific recommendation to make but ... another 2 cents ..

IMO topical application preparations are unlikely to help .... herbal or otherwise. Systemic preparations tho, herbal and vitamin etc ... another matter. I am of the opinion that some people suffer quite specific enzyme deficiencies that can tie in with the biochemistry involved here.

So - there is a possibility that some help could be gained but ... pinning down what is best ... for the individual, may not always be so easy.

My memory is very rusty after so long but I have a feeling Vit E is significant ... the main vitamins usually playing quite a role in enzyme production. The enzymes themselves being catalysts.
 
Go to a hand doctor and get ...THE TEST...it hurts BTW!:uhoh:

Rule out the nerve damage. If it's just tendonitis, stretching, rubbing, weights and ice can cure it, if you're compliant.
 
P95Carry makes some good points on the muscles involved in DA shooting. Your stance can have a great effect on this, whether you use the Weaver, Weaver/Chapman, or Isoceles. I developed tennis elbow, probably from doing a lot of DA shooting with a locked elbow in the Weaver/Chapman stance. Used a pressure point elbow brace to help it heal, but I continue to use the brace when I anticipate repetitious or strenuous work with my arms.
 
See a doctor now. You want to take care of it before it gets worse. It can require major surgery if you don't. That's what happened to John Taffin.
 
[/QUOTE]Is there another action type that's easier from this perspective? SA auto? Glocks?[/QUOTE]

Buzz, by all means stop shooting those DA revolvers and seriously consider switching to a semi-auto pistol. Women, children, and men of slight build or those with frailties such as yourself would be much better off shooting a soft recoiling pistol. I personally would recommend a Glock in .380 (hard to find I know, but this is your health man!). The polymer frame flexes and seems to soak up a lot of recoil. While you're at it you might as well give all of your revolvers to a deserving friend :D Seriously, just take a break from shooting revolvers for awhile. Go back to the dark side of the 1911. Load up some 200s at 800 fps and after a few months you will be cured. I personally had the same problem caused by shooting 500 rounds of .44 Magnum (250gr.@900fps) a week, double action rapid fire for 2 months out of a round butted Model 29. The revolver, especially the way we shoot it with the high grip, channels most of its recoil energy into the bones of the hand, wrist and arm. The recoil impulse, along with the continuous tight grip, tends to aggravate any old injuries. Call it shooter's elbow or whatever but it definitely is real. I cured mine by laying off revolvers for awhile and shooting my 1911. Much softer recoil impulse.
 
Frontlander,

Did you just call me frail? Be careful. I know where you live. But you're right about the 1911. I'll load up some 200 grain ACPs just as soon as I can raise my ravaged right hand high enough to reach my Rockchucker press. Oh yeah, you want my revolvers? Let's talk about those Enfields.
 
Buzz,

You don't have a gun problem, you have a medical problem.

Ask your doctor about Vioxx and Celebrex! They work extremely well for me, and I'm 60!
 
I posted a thread about this awhile ago. for me, DA revolvers flat hurt to shoot in any real caliber. I hate to admit it, but, rubber grips seem to make them alot more pleasant. Particularly, a 3" 65 with full house loads. Theres something about that stupid horn at the top of DA revolvers that just smacks the exact spot on the web of my hand that can cause the most pain. That shock goes from the web of my hand straight through to my elbow. I don't know if its the recoil absorbing property of the rubber, the wider and flattened out "horn" or a combination of the two. I know I can fire my Ruger SP-101 alot easier than I can the 65. The Ruger grips works like a champ for me, wider, smoother, no steel knuckle at the top.

I would not doubt that the pain you feel in your whole arm is coming from that one impact point on the web of your hand.
 
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