Daily summer carry (pocket option prefered)

[GVMan]

My daily carry weapon choice decision continues. I went to my local firearms store today to rent a few and hold a few. Every visit to the store I get a different salesman and a different opinion on the best small handgun for daily carry. They are all great guys and each has good reasons for their choice. First visit salesman steers me away from a Kahr PM9 to the Glock 26. Second visit salesman steers me back to the Kahr but says I should get the all stainless MK9 (better reliability). The third and most convincing salesman said to get an aluminum alloy S&W 442 with Crimson Trace.

My own observations are: The G26 is a little too big for carry in the summer with light clothing. I think I would end up leaving it in the safe at home too often and therefore is not in consideration for this purchase. The third salesman made a good demonstration of a close range attack with the Crimson trace and a 442. It made me think that any CCW gun should have a laser. Crimson Trace and Lasermax do not currently have anything for the Kahr. So, I am leaning heavily towards the S&W revolver.

Now that brings another question. The 442 is 38+P. A friend has the lighter scandium S&W 360 .357 and it hurts to shoot .357 though. I don't remember what .38 felt like in it. It is also way more expensive. Is 38+p enough? What am I missing.

Heck, I'll add a poll to this question also.

 

[loplop]

38 +P is plenty. Go visit the 642 Club and enjoy.

There's also a 38spl snubnose ammo poll going on right now.

Of course, the magnums are fun, too. I carry a MP340 now, although at the moment its stoked with 38+P.

 

[DogBonz]

wow...

Talk about a close race...

 

[TireFryer]

I was going through the very same process, and finally ended up with a Ruger SP101 357mag 2-1/4" snubbie as my summer daily carry. Using a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, it disappears in my pocket w/o printing and very easily accessible. (got rid of my prev KelTec P32 as a pocket carry). My other daily carry, with the appropriate clothing attire, is either a 1911 .45acp Govt or a commander, so weight was not a concern/issue for me. The right holster and belt are very key and important to carry and being comfortable.
I was NOT a revolver guy at all...I stuck to my semi-auto (1911's in particular), but thought I would give the revolvers a try. Having rented a few, I decided to stay away from a lightweight revolver in the 357mag due heavy recoil and taking longer to reacquire target sight for follow up shots. The SP101, I found, is very manageable, in either the 38spl or the 357mag, being that it is all steel construction. 38spl+P has been a good compromise on both being manageable yet potent enough. If you want to get a lightweight revolver, 38spl is probably what you'll want to stick to.
hope that helps... if in the lansing/mason area, a couple of decent places to check out revolvers and other pocket semi-autos. let me know...

 

[orionengnr]

I voted 442

Although I carry a Kahr PM9...

I have owned the 360 and it's brother, the 340. Both long gone.

I've also had the 442's cousin.

None of the j-frames point or shoot well for me. With a laser, they would be more workable.

The steel framed Kahr is a good pistol, but heavy (in relative terms). Probably great for IWB but pressing it for pocket carry (IMHO).

For me, the PM9 is the perfect pocket carry. Points naturally, is a lot more accurate (in my hands) and holds 6+1 with another 7 readily available.

Good luck.

 

[DawgFvr]

I voted 442...but really want to vote for the 642. Back-up would be the P3AT in .380

 

[GVMan]

642 vs 442

Thanks DawgFvr,

What would be better about the 642?

Anyone have an opinion on shrouded vs enclosed hammer?

 

[Bobo]

I'm sorry I couldn't vote for any of your options, but I want to be as helpful as I can. There are so many possibilities available, and everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes. So I'll just tell you what I think and you can take it for what it's worth ...

If you can comfortably pocket carry, without printing, a gun that size, none of those would be on my list.

If I wanted a semi-auto and I wanted a Kahr, instead of the MK9 I would choose the PM9. It is lighter weight and the latest ones are now very reliable. Weight can be a big factor when carrying in a pocket.

If I wanted a J-frame I would get a .357 not a .38. I would shoot mostly .38 at the range, but carry with .357.
I would also prefer a hammerless model for pocket carry to prevent snagging. This would mean a 340 rather than a 360.
Also if you want to spend less go for the 642. It is hammerless, weighs only 3 oz. more then the 360 (which actually may help with recoil when shooting), and costs about half of what the scandium version costs.

Many people have reported that their accuracy with a snubbie, particularly one as light as the scandium models, is not as good as with the Kahr MK/PM style semi's. You probably should try to shoot both before you buy, and also try one of each in a pocket holster in your pocket to check for printing and comfort.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Glockman17366]

If you're going to do a poll, I suggest you add "Other" to the selection.

Frankly, this poll is worthless, otherwise

 

[cslinger]

I vote 442 in your poll but would also highly suggest looking at the 638. All the benefits of the 6/442 but with the added ability to cock for single action.

 

[scurtis_34471]

Keep in mind that a Scandium J-Frame snubby is going to be an absolute wrist-breaker with .357.

 

[jt1]

GVMan - I will have to recommend the S&W 642. Come over to the 642 club and read a little and see why so many end up with this little monster. I have carried quite a few handguns both pistol and revolver and this is the best all around gun I have found. Lightweight, easy to conceal, good power with the right ammo. As you have found the lasers are good, but you still need to be qualified and skilled in open sights and point shooting. The manual of arms is very basic for a double action only revolver and IMO this is the way to go for a CCW for a private citizen in a normal threat enviroment. As for the hammer question, If used as a SD gun, IMO a hammerless is one less thing to think about, one less thing to entagle and one less thing to break. On the 442/642 queston it's all about looks. I would not consider a Scandium or Ti for a first time primary CCW.

 

[ugaarguy]

Take a look at "Bobo's Pocket Auto Comparison Chart" stickied at the top of the autoloaders forum for some good info. For an always there pocket gun I really like the Kel-Tec P3AT, or whichever flavor of the S&W J frame Airweight .38s you fancy. I'm a bit partial to the shrouded hammer bodyguards myself.

 

[mjrodney]

Another vote for the ultra-reliable, S&W humpbacked J-Frame, in .38 +p.

Put one in a pocket holster, drop it into a pair of cargo shorts and it disappears.

 

[Don Lu]

I'd suggest the Smith 649 .357 w/shrouded hammer. The hammer wont snag in you pocket and you still have a gun that gives you the option for da/sa shooting for fun at the range. You can shoot .357 or shoot .38's. This would be my pick just for versitility between calibres and shooting da/sa w/o having to worry about the hammer snagging.

 

[obxned]

None of the above.

 

[1BLINDREF]

I voted for the 442.
I carry a 642 with crimson trace laser grips almost everyday. I have many other options as far as which gun to carry. All have more rounds and some shoot bigger bullets, but when I open my safe and I'm grabbing a "friend" to take with me, it's usually my 642. If I feel I need more gun, I'll grab a Sig and the 642 will be my BUG.
The difference between the 642 and the 442 is the finish. The 442 is all black . I bought a 642 because thats the one my gun store had in stock.
As far as the 360PD or some of the other light weight J-frames go, the recoil is pretty nasty - not impossible, but just plain nasty. Your practice time with it would probably be spent shooting mostly 38spl. IMHO, you should practice with what load you carry exclusively. The only way to carry responsibly is to be proficient with your gun/bullet load choice and the only way to do that is practice, practice, and more practice.
One of the main reasons I usually end up grabbing the 642 is because of ease of carry. I can slip it into my jacket or pants pocket and I don't even know its there. At 15ozs and 38spl +P its a great combination. The shrouded hammer vs the regular hammer is a preference thing. I have a few different J frames, some with and some without. The shrouded hammer makes more sense to me if you plan to pocket carry. Ease of draw is much better - no hammer to catch or snag on your pocket. I don't see the point in cocking the hammer for single action shooting with a J-frame. The sole purpose of the J-frame is for up close and personal use in a self defence situation. Having said that, J-frames are more accurate then most people give them credit for, but you aren't gonna target shoot with it! Put a set of Crimson Trace laser grips on it and you'll be good to go. You'll be able to point shoot without using the sights, simply put the red dot on your target and pull the trigger.
Check out the 642 thread that loplop linked in his post, and get ready to buy one
Good luck with your decsion.

 

[tegemu]

None of the above. I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II, .45 ACP, in a Sam Andrews pocket holster.

 

[glockman19]

I voted for the S&W 442 I have a 642 and have paid for but can't get until 5/20. 1 gun every 30 days in CA.

 

[3rdpig]

442, hands down, and I'm an auto fan.

I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II, .45 ACP, in a Sam Andrews pocket holster.

I decided that a Glock 26 was too big and heavy for pocket carry, even in cargo pants (and you can forget jeans), and your UCII is bigger in every dimension and heavier than my G26. There's no way I'd want to carry something that thick and heavy in a pants pocket. But if you can then more power to you.

I'd love to pocket carry my G26, but it's like carrying a 1-1/4" thick (in an Ahern pocket holster) paperback book in my pocket that weighs almost 2 pounds. The combination of size and weight makes it quite obvious that something large is in my pocket, and sitting down stretches the pants across my leg and makes it REALLY obvious. The holster hides the shape, but not the bulk and the weight pulls stress creases in my pants when I'm standing. Also, I either have to wear suspenders or keep my belt unusually tight or the weight drags my pants lower than what's comfortable.. A J frame snubby (in my case an older S&W Bodyguard), despite not being that much smaller than the Glock, is night and day because it's way less bulky and weighs 10 ozs less loaded.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Originally posted by orionengnr:
For me, the PM9 is the perfect pocket carry. Points naturally, is a lot more accurate (in my hands) and holds 6+1 with another 7 readily available.

Agreed. It is my personal favorite. This one should be on the list IMO, perhaps as an "other" choice.

Originally posted by 3rdpig:
I'd love to pocket carry my G26, but it's like carrying a 1-1/4" thick (in an Ahern pocket holster) paperback book in my pocket that weighs almost 2 pounds. The combination of size and weight makes it quite obvious that something large is in my pocket, and sitting down stretches the pants across my leg and makes it REALLY obvious. The holster hides the shape, but not the bulk and the weight pulls stress creases in my pants when I'm standing. Also, I either have to wear suspenders or keep my belt unusually tight or the weight drags my pants lower than what's comfortable..

A very good description. I also found this to be true with a G27 I had. The weight dragging pants down may also be an issue with the MK9, as its steel frame makes it close to the same weight as the mini-Glock.

I would give a slight edge to the revolver (if it has a concealed or shrouded hammer; all bets are off with a spurred hammer) for ease of draw from a pocket. The protrusion of the rear of the slide and the rear sight of the Kahr is a little more prone to snagging. I largely avoid this by checking the size of pockets before I buy. Regular or slim-fit jeans are very poor for pocket carrying guns, but casual slacks, cargo pants or "relaxed-fit" jeans are fine.

 

[MassMark]

442

After carrying both a Colt Defender and most recently a ParaCarry for the last several years, I can now say I am completely spoiled by my S&W642CT. My Para feels like a brick now. I have only carried the 642CT a few times now, as I'm still training with it before I carry it full-time. It is light, pocketable, powerful and surprisingly accurate. The addition of the CT's to the package make the J Frame uber-comfortable in my hands, yet still concealable. Loaded with Speer 135gr GDHP +P, it is a powerful little firebreather...

I have seen the light and it's name is Smith and Wesson.

 

[Abner]

I voted 442 b/c it's closest to my carry of M&P340 w/standard pressure .38 special.
My PM9 is great but a little heavy in the pocket. Standard sights on my 642 are hard for me to see.

Adam

 

[GVMan]

Thanks for all the great input. I have visited the 642 Club, wow.

Another point for the revolvers is that you can shoot from any awkward postion and not have to worry about the slide not cycling. For instance if you had to hold off an attacker with your left hand, while drawing and firing from the hip using a laser for aiming with your right hand. I don't think an autoloader would cycle reliably in this case.

Although I didn't include an "other" category, I appreciate everyones posts outlining other choices, thanks!

 

[GVMan]

Bought the 642

Thanks everyone for helping me select my next handgun. Between all your input here, and also from the 642 Club thread refered to by jt1, I decided to go with the 642 with Crimson Trace LG405's.

Thanks again everyone!!!!

I took it to the range today. I love it. I am very glad I bought the Crimson Trace, it sure helps keep this snubby on track. I feel comfortable with the iron or "alloy" sights for SD ranges if the lighting was fairly decent. However for slightly longer shots and low light the laser really shines!