Damn! Missed the mountain!
- Thread starter Warren
- Start date
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Braz
Member
Mr. Incredible: I'm fired, aren't I?
Rick: Ya think!
Rick: Ya think!
TheOtherOne
Member
I thought I heard them say on the news the house was over 7 miles away from where the round was fired!
griz
Member
Wow. If UDOT doesn't have a vacancy soon I would be surprized.
INCOMING!
INCOMING!
Bear Gulch
Member
Griz be prepared to be surprised.
trapperjohn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Messages
- 567
I'm the only one on this mountain professional enough to.........
Warbow
Member
Yikes! 
Vern Humphrey
Member
Having been stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma (The Field Artillery Center and School), you hear a lot of stories like that. It doesn't happen often, but every decade or so someone in the town of Lawton will get a free swimming pool.
When I was Deputy Operations Officer for the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea, one night I got rousted out out of bed to answer a question from 8th Army, "Are you firing artillery?"
I checked the board, no one scheduled to fire that night. "Nope."
Half an hour later, I got woken up again. "Are you sure? 8th ROK division says you shelled their officer's mess."
"Hmmm . . . what time are we talking about?"
"Wait. I'll get back to you. <long pause> Eight o'clock this morning."
"Well, why didn't you say that at first? Yes. We had a battery firing from 4P1."
It turns out they were firing two vollies, one platoon (that is, two guns firing, two shells from each.) The observer only saw two shells burst in the impact area. So some genius decided to check by shooting the mission again.
Same thing, four rounds fired, only two bursts observed.
"Okay, we'll try it again -- this time, right by piece." (one gun fires, then the other fires.)
The observer saw the first shell burst, then heard a "BOOM!" behind him.
After some consultation, they decided to keep quiet about it.
You should have heard the ROK's side of the story! "First they shell us. BOOM-BOOM! We wait five minutes, and go back to look for damage. BOOM-BOOM! We wait ten minuted and go back. BOOM!"
When I was Deputy Operations Officer for the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea, one night I got rousted out out of bed to answer a question from 8th Army, "Are you firing artillery?"
I checked the board, no one scheduled to fire that night. "Nope."
Half an hour later, I got woken up again. "Are you sure? 8th ROK division says you shelled their officer's mess."
"Hmmm . . . what time are we talking about?"
"Wait. I'll get back to you. <long pause> Eight o'clock this morning."
"Well, why didn't you say that at first? Yes. We had a battery firing from 4P1."
It turns out they were firing two vollies, one platoon (that is, two guns firing, two shells from each.) The observer only saw two shells burst in the impact area. So some genius decided to check by shooting the mission again.
Same thing, four rounds fired, only two bursts observed.
"Okay, we'll try it again -- this time, right by piece." (one gun fires, then the other fires.)
The observer saw the first shell burst, then heard a "BOOM!" behind him.
After some consultation, they decided to keep quiet about it.
You should have heard the ROK's side of the story! "First they shell us. BOOM-BOOM! We wait five minutes, and go back to look for damage. BOOM-BOOM! We wait ten minuted and go back. BOOM!"
'I wonder what a little more powder would do?'....We were attacked by the avalanche, it was self defense'....'I'm not sure they will call this "a good shoot" ' and for those old enough to remember Chickin' lickin' - "the sky's falling !!!'
svtruth
Member
DOTs
There is a great account of (I think) Oregon's DOT blowing up a dead whale with dynamite, and showering spectators with rotting blubber,
Department of 'Tupidity?
There is a great account of (I think) Oregon's DOT blowing up a dead whale with dynamite, and showering spectators with rotting blubber,
Department of 'Tupidity?
Vern Humphrey
Member
Quote:
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'I wonder what a little more powder would do?'....
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The 105 Howitzer (like all American artillery) uses a zoned charge. There are seven "zones" or "charges." The Fire Direction Center, in computing the mission selects the charge.
The projectile is simply a slip fit in the case, and you take the projectile out and the charge is in seven cloth bags, all connected with thread. Let's say the FDC has announced, "Charge 5." You lift the charges, and leave the last two charges (6 and 7) hanging over the lip of the case and replace the projectile. On order, you break the string and hold the two extra charges up over your head so the safety officer can see them.
If they used "too much powder" clearly the safety officer was asleep at the switch.
C
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'I wonder what a little more powder would do?'....
---------------------------------
The 105 Howitzer (like all American artillery) uses a zoned charge. There are seven "zones" or "charges." The Fire Direction Center, in computing the mission selects the charge.
The projectile is simply a slip fit in the case, and you take the projectile out and the charge is in seven cloth bags, all connected with thread. Let's say the FDC has announced, "Charge 5." You lift the charges, and leave the last two charges (6 and 7) hanging over the lip of the case and replace the projectile. On order, you break the string and hold the two extra charges up over your head so the safety officer can see them.
If they used "too much powder" clearly the safety officer was asleep at the switch.
C
charby
Member
If that was my back yard, I'd be cleaning my drawers out right after the shell hit.
Wingshooter
Member
LOL beat me to it!
SLCDave
Member
Another Report from the Salt Lake Tribune
Shell misses mountain, lands in neighborhood
No one hurt: Dad says shrapnel just missed his 3-year-old son "by inches"; UDOT takes full responsibility
By Lisa Rosetta
The Salt Lake Tribune
A 20-pound artillery shell loaded with too much gunpowder overshot its Provo Canyon avalanche target Wednesday by about three miles, exploding in the back yard of a Pleasant Grove couple and piercing three homes with shrapnel.
Remarkably, no one was injured.
Now the Utah Department of Transportation is scrambling to understand what went wrong and make sure it never happens again.
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT.
Around 3 p.m., atop Arrowhead Peak, UDOT fired the 105 mm shell from a howitzer artillery cannon - leased from the U.S. military - toward the Lost Creek slide path area in Provo Canyon about two miles away.
But the shell kept going.
The military sends the shells to UDOT pre-loaded with seven packages of gunpowder. The operators were supposed to remove two. Instead, it was fired fully loaded, and rocketed into the residential neighborhood.
UDOT didn't realize the shell had exploded in Scott Connors' back yard at 1665 E. 480 South - creating a 3-foot-wide crater that was a foot deep - until the 911 calls began to come in.
"There was a big explosion," Connors said. "I saw the window in the family room blow out. Glass covered my son. He started screaming."
Shrapnel barreled through his house, nearly injuring his 3-year-old son. "We felt . . . quite sure that a couple of pieces just missed him by inches," Connors said.
The blast also damaged Connors' shed and sent shrapnel through a fence and into a neighbor's car.
The Pleasant Grove man's first thought was that a propane tank stored in his shed had exploded. He called 911 dispatchers, who instructed him and his family to leave the house. Police and fire personnel determined an explosive had detonated and evacuated nearby homes. A bomb squad was called in.
By about 9 p.m., officials knew it was the errant shell and allowed Connors and his neighbors back into their homes.
While Braceras did not have an estimate of the damage to the homes, he said UDOT will cover the full cost of the homeowners' repairs. A safety risk manager was at the site Wednesday assessing the situation.
"They [UDOT] have told us they're responsible," Connors said.
"I don't need to tell them. They said they're investigating the incident. So, you know, I'm not angry with them or anything else. I believe it was purely an accident."
That said, he added, "We're just glad it wasn't any worse than it was."
On Wednesday, winds gusted between 40 and 50 mph, whipping up snow and blurring visibility. The cannon's operators didn't see where the shell landed, which, according to Braceras, is typical.
In 2001, UDOT began using artillery shells as its primary method of avalanche control since bad weather often prevents helicopters from flying in and dropping 2-pound hand charges.
"What the military weapon allows us to do is provide the greatest level of safety to the motorists," Braceras said.
UDOT reviewed the details of Wednesday night's accident before firing shells in Little Cottonwood Canyon on Thursday morning.
"To say we didn't have the highest awareness of safety beforehand would be false," Braceras said. "But we're actively discussing what happened to make sure that didn't happen [Thursday] morning."
[email protected]
Shell misses mountain, lands in neighborhood
No one hurt: Dad says shrapnel just missed his 3-year-old son "by inches"; UDOT takes full responsibility
By Lisa Rosetta
The Salt Lake Tribune
A 20-pound artillery shell loaded with too much gunpowder overshot its Provo Canyon avalanche target Wednesday by about three miles, exploding in the back yard of a Pleasant Grove couple and piercing three homes with shrapnel.
Remarkably, no one was injured.
Now the Utah Department of Transportation is scrambling to understand what went wrong and make sure it never happens again.
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT.
Around 3 p.m., atop Arrowhead Peak, UDOT fired the 105 mm shell from a howitzer artillery cannon - leased from the U.S. military - toward the Lost Creek slide path area in Provo Canyon about two miles away.
But the shell kept going.
The military sends the shells to UDOT pre-loaded with seven packages of gunpowder. The operators were supposed to remove two. Instead, it was fired fully loaded, and rocketed into the residential neighborhood.
UDOT didn't realize the shell had exploded in Scott Connors' back yard at 1665 E. 480 South - creating a 3-foot-wide crater that was a foot deep - until the 911 calls began to come in.
"There was a big explosion," Connors said. "I saw the window in the family room blow out. Glass covered my son. He started screaming."
Shrapnel barreled through his house, nearly injuring his 3-year-old son. "We felt . . . quite sure that a couple of pieces just missed him by inches," Connors said.
The blast also damaged Connors' shed and sent shrapnel through a fence and into a neighbor's car.
The Pleasant Grove man's first thought was that a propane tank stored in his shed had exploded. He called 911 dispatchers, who instructed him and his family to leave the house. Police and fire personnel determined an explosive had detonated and evacuated nearby homes. A bomb squad was called in.
By about 9 p.m., officials knew it was the errant shell and allowed Connors and his neighbors back into their homes.
While Braceras did not have an estimate of the damage to the homes, he said UDOT will cover the full cost of the homeowners' repairs. A safety risk manager was at the site Wednesday assessing the situation.
"They [UDOT] have told us they're responsible," Connors said.
"I don't need to tell them. They said they're investigating the incident. So, you know, I'm not angry with them or anything else. I believe it was purely an accident."
That said, he added, "We're just glad it wasn't any worse than it was."
On Wednesday, winds gusted between 40 and 50 mph, whipping up snow and blurring visibility. The cannon's operators didn't see where the shell landed, which, according to Braceras, is typical.
In 2001, UDOT began using artillery shells as its primary method of avalanche control since bad weather often prevents helicopters from flying in and dropping 2-pound hand charges.
"What the military weapon allows us to do is provide the greatest level of safety to the motorists," Braceras said.
UDOT reviewed the details of Wednesday night's accident before firing shells in Little Cottonwood Canyon on Thursday morning.
"To say we didn't have the highest awareness of safety beforehand would be false," Braceras said. "But we're actively discussing what happened to make sure that didn't happen [Thursday] morning."
[email protected]
Warren
Member
Do you mean because you will be moving or because you just had a movement?
Vern Humphrey
Member
Quote:
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Do you mean because you will be moving or because you just had a movement?
---------------------------------
Back in '68, I saw a strange thing - I was in the 1st Bde, 5th ID, OPCON to 3rd MarDiv. We were at Quang Tri, camped in a rice paddy without any comforts as the reserve Marine regiment (27th as I recall) that we replaced moved out. Then we moved the HQ up to Dong Ha, 3rd MarDiv HQ. As a recent arrival, I was on the Tactical Operations Center (TOC) night shift, awaiting a company to come open.
The day shift did the move, and I came up that afternoon. It was heaven! There were Sea-huts, bunks with blankets and hot showers! I was in the shower room, and several Marines came in. Then we heard it -- SHUUUUUUBANG! A 130mm gun-howitzer shell hit in the SeaBee area about 400 yards away.
Suddenly the shower room was empty. I looked at the door and saw what I thought were 40 bald-headed men trying to force their way in. Then I realized it was 20 bare-a**ed Marines trying to force their way OUT.
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Do you mean because you will be moving or because you just had a movement?
---------------------------------
Back in '68, I saw a strange thing - I was in the 1st Bde, 5th ID, OPCON to 3rd MarDiv. We were at Quang Tri, camped in a rice paddy without any comforts as the reserve Marine regiment (27th as I recall) that we replaced moved out. Then we moved the HQ up to Dong Ha, 3rd MarDiv HQ. As a recent arrival, I was on the Tactical Operations Center (TOC) night shift, awaiting a company to come open.
The day shift did the move, and I came up that afternoon. It was heaven! There were Sea-huts, bunks with blankets and hot showers! I was in the shower room, and several Marines came in. Then we heard it -- SHUUUUUUBANG! A 130mm gun-howitzer shell hit in the SeaBee area about 400 yards away.
Suddenly the shower room was empty. I looked at the door and saw what I thought were 40 bald-headed men trying to force their way in. Then I realized it was 20 bare-a**ed Marines trying to force their way OUT.
charby
Member
movement... ha ha ha.. I guess I didn't think about the dresser.
Smurfslayer
Member
Well, at least this is good news...
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT. "
[SS] Excellent. Finally some personal responsibility in government. So, who's being criminally charged?
Well?
Sorry but "full responsibility" means somebody has to go to prison for this. This isn't an errant .22 round ladies and gents the crew present for the firing should've IMMEDIATELY been taken into custody.
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT. "
[SS] Excellent. Finally some personal responsibility in government. So, who's being criminally charged?
Well?
Sorry but "full responsibility" means somebody has to go to prison for this. This isn't an errant .22 round ladies and gents the crew present for the firing should've IMMEDIATELY been taken into custody.
scout26
Member
Many years ago when I was stationed in Baumholder (then the home of 8ID's Divarty) we had three former Artillery Battery commanders who were co-OIC's of the golf course......
FO: "Did not observe, Repeat."
Range Control: "NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!"
(the rounds, fortunately, were landing in a farmers field wwwaaaaayyyy outside the impact area) :banghead:
Frantic Rifle Range OIC: "Range Control !! Range Control !!! This is range 6, I have Rounds impacting on my range, CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE". (Range 6 is only 100 yards long)
My favorite though was when C 2/29 FA calculated their weather data at 0430 when it was cold and raining, but didn't shoot until around 1300 when it was nice and warm. Fortunately they were NOT shooting over post.
Nothing I enjoyed more then being out on the MTA, and hearing that Loooonnnngggg Ring on the field phone, while my SO was yelling "CEASE FIRE FREEZE, CEASE FIRE FREEZE".
(Hint: 30.80, new squelch ON).
While in the reserves, I was at Ft. McCoy, when a NG FA unit decided that they didn't like their accommodations and shelled the cantonment area, when they were shooting from one of the training areas south of main post, to the main impact area north of the post. Turned an old WWII barracks building into toothpicks.
FO: "Did not observe, Repeat."
Range Control: "NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!"
(the rounds, fortunately, were landing in a farmers field wwwaaaaayyyy outside the impact area) :banghead:
Frantic Rifle Range OIC: "Range Control !! Range Control !!! This is range 6, I have Rounds impacting on my range, CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE". (Range 6 is only 100 yards long)
My favorite though was when C 2/29 FA calculated their weather data at 0430 when it was cold and raining, but didn't shoot until around 1300 when it was nice and warm. Fortunately they were NOT shooting over post.
Nothing I enjoyed more then being out on the MTA, and hearing that Loooonnnngggg Ring on the field phone, while my SO was yelling "CEASE FIRE FREEZE, CEASE FIRE FREEZE".
(Hint: 30.80, new squelch ON).While in the reserves, I was at Ft. McCoy, when a NG FA unit decided that they didn't like their accommodations and shelled the cantonment area, when they were shooting from one of the training areas south of main post, to the main impact area north of the post. Turned an old WWII barracks building into toothpicks.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
From the Grunt's Dictionary -- "Artillery. A device for making sure our Infantry doesn't have too much of an advantage over their infantry."
dasmi
Member
Normally I don't got for lawsuits, but these people need to file one. They could've all been killed.
ScorpioVI
Member
Can you imagine the conversation between the FDC and FO?
FDC: "Shot, over!"
FO: "Shot, out!"
FDC: "Splash, over!"
FO: "What ????ing splash? Over!"
FDC: "Shot, over!"
FO: "Shot, out!"
FDC: "Splash, over!"
FO: "What ????ing splash? Over!"
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