DAO

[Life During Wartime]

So I understand the difference between Single Action and Double Action as it refers to both revolvers and semis, but I do not udnerstand DAO. Does DAO mean that every trigger pull is DA. If so, what sense does that make when a DA wants to go into SA after the shot
what is the point of making all of the trigger pulls long and heavy especially when you can just add a decocker

 

[kokapelli]

Because DAO means every trigger pulls is the same unlike having to transition from a double action pull to a single action pull like you have with DA/SA pistols.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

So I understand the difference between Single Action and Double Action as it refers to both revolvers and semis, but I do not udnerstand DAO. Does DAO mean that every trigger pull is DA. If so, what sense does that make when a DA wants to go into SA after the shot what is the point of making all of the trigger pulls long and heavy especially when you can just add a decocker

Every DAO gun I've used or owned DID NOT go into SA mode after the shot. True DAO guns revert to the original starting condition, with hammer down and a long trigger pull required. (Double Action ONLY indicates that the trigger action doesn't -- indeed, can't -- shift into SA mode...)

What's you're describing is the typical DA/SA gun, like most SIGs... The first pull of the trigger (if "cocked and locked" isn't an option with that model) is Double Action, and all subsequent pulls are SA, with the slide cocking the hammer for the next shot.

(Some DA/SA guns, like CZs and CZ clones, will also let you start from cocked and locked [Hammer cocked, safety on], with a DA trigger available if you have a bad round, or simply don't like C&L mode.)

 

[Frankl03]

Hope this helps but with DAO it never goes into SA. I believe Sig 250s are DAO. You get a long trigger pull every time.

 

[Life During Wartime]

That is what I thought
What benefit is there to DAO over DA/SA
I dont really see a benefit other than the trigger is always the same, but then, why not just go with a SA like a 1911

How mechanically is a DAO different to force the hammer back into its uncocked position, since in a da/sa, the slide puts it into sa

 

[jeffmack]

As mentioned above, DAO gives you the same trigger pull with every shot.

Single actions, like 1911's, are great for precision shots when you have a long time to line everything up.

DAO are kind of nice for inexperienced shooters. If you extremely agitated (just been mugged) and excited, you might be shaking, and you might forget to take your finger off the trigger (which is bad, but it happens.) A longer trigger pull might be more advantageous.

 

[JoePfeiffer]

The claim is that you are much less likely to have a negligent discharge in a high-stress (i.e. self defense) situation if every shot requires a long DA pull.

sent using RFC 1149 protocol

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Benefits? It's all a matter of personal preference.

A lot of police departments issued DAO weapons, assuming that officers under pressure are less likely to squeeze off rounds unintentionally if their weapon had a long trigger pull. (DAO also means that there's no concern with decocking when the weapon is no longer needed -- as it's not cocked.)

Mechanical differences? In a DA/SA or SA model, the cocked hammer rests on a sear, which can hold the hammer in a "cocked" position until it was released by trigger movement (when working in SA mode). In a DAO gun, the trigger just moves the hammer back a bit farther until it falls.

There are also similar modes of operation in striker-fired weapons, with

1) the striker spring being fully cocked/compressed and released by a single trigger pull,

2) the striker spring being partially cocked/compressed by slide movement and further compressed and released by the trigger, and

3) fully compressed by the slide action, and released by trigger action.

None of these strike-fired weapons have hammers, but the mechanism can still be fully or partially cocked...

 

[DMZ]

DAO pistols do not require a safety and IMO, just like a DA revolver. Like a DA revolver, it does take practice to master the trigger and grip, but that just means more shooting.

Also with a DAO pistol, you are less inclined to shoot rapidly and therefore less accurately. With DAO you are inclined to be more deliberate with each shot and more accurate.

 

[jstein650]

If you've ever practiced a lot with a nice DA revolver - good S&W and others - Well, I've noticed, for me, I often shoot better in DA, when I don't know exactly when the hammer will fall. I think most folks shoot their DA's single action for accuracy, but there's something to be said for consistent grip and follow through that DA shooting can provide. It does take a nice smooth action and I'm not sure if the typical DA auto is as nice as a good revolver.

 

[C0untZer0]

This is why I bought the HK P7M8.

 

[kokapelli]

DAO pistols do not require a safety and IMO, just like a DA revolver. Like a DA revolver, it does take practice to master the trigger and grip, but that just means more shooting.

Also with a DAO pistol, you are less inclined to shoot rapidly and therefore less accurately. With DAO you are inclined to be more deliberate with each shot and more accurate.

I disagree and think it takes more practice to master the transition from double action to single action in DA/SA than it does to master the consistent DAO pull.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Also with a DAO pistol, you are less inclined to shoot rapidly and therefore less accurately. With DAO you are inclined to be more deliberate with each shot and more accurate.[

At the range, this might be true, but in a self-defense situation, I suspect that most of us aren't going to be disciplined and deliberate with each shot. Theory goes out the door when you're at risk and the adrenaline is flowing!!

 

[Life During Wartime]

@ walt

2) is like a glock right?

what are the other like

 

[DMZ]

I disagree and think it takes more practice to master the transition from double action to single action in DA/SA than it does to master the consistent DAO pull.

I did not say mastering a DAO trigger was more difficult than a DA/SA trigger. I just said that one had to master a DAO trigger.

At the range, this might be true, but in a self-defense situation, I suspect that most of us aren't going to be disciplined and deliberate with each shot. Theory goes out the door when you're at risk and the adrenaline is flowing!!

I did not say that one would shoot more deliberately, but that one might be more inclined. That is why copious practice is important.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

2) is like the Glock.

Others can address what striker-fired guns fall into the three groups...

 

[Tomac]

SIG P250 is DAO. This simplifies the mechanism (no decockers, manual safeties or DA/SA parts) and results in a long but very smooth and light trigger.
Although I haven't had my P250's very long yet, I do know that I much prefer the P250's DAO to any DA/SA trigger and I don't have to worry about remembering/finding/manipulating a manual safety under stress.
Is it for everyone? No.
However, a DAO has distinct advantages in SD situations and suits my particular needs better than other current offerings (YMMV).
Tomac

 

[Life During Wartime]

@ tomac

interesting that it is a light trigger pull, do you knwo how many pounds. I tend to assume that any sort of DA is always heavy
(although the DA on a S&W is pretty smooth)

 

[DMZ]

The DA pull on my P250 is a bit heavier than my M29-3 and much lighter than the DA my GP-100. It has got a long pull, but it does not stage or stack like many revolvers. Very consistent all the way to hammer drop.

 

[allaroundhunter]

@ tomac

interesting that it is a light trigger pull, do you knwo how many pounds. I tend to assume that any sort of DA is always heavy
(although the DA on a S&W is pretty smooth)

Typically, a DAO pistol will have a trigger that is heavier than 5 lbs, but not as heavy as the first DA pull of a DA/SA pistol.

 

[kokapelli]

I did not say mastering a DAO trigger was more difficult than a DA/SA trigger. I just said that one had to master a DAO trigger.



I did not say that one would shoot more deliberately, but that one might be more inclined. That is why copious practice is important.

Ok than I must have misinterpreted what you meant because you said "DAO pistols do not require a safety and IMO, just like a DA revolver. Like a DA revolver, it does take practice to master the trigger and grip, but that just means more shooting"

 

[GJSchulze]

Springfield XD and XDm are #1; the spring is fully compressed. I've heard the XD called DAO, but that doesn't fit the previous descriptions. It's more like they are SAO. Can anyone explain this?

 

[allaroundhunter]

Springfield XD and XDm are #1; the spring is fully compressed. I've heard the XD called DAO, but that doesn't fit the previous descriptions. It's more like they are SAO. Can anyone explain this?

Springfield XD pistols are indeed technically SA pistols. It is a reason that in some competitions they are not as popular (because of the division they put a shooter in). Anyone who calls one a DAO gun is wrong and is just going on the assumption that all striker fired pistols are DAO.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I tend to assume that any sort of DA is always heavy

As a general rule a trigger that was designed to be DAO (SIG DAK, SIG 250, H&K LEM) will have a lighter DA trigger stroke than the DA portion of a DA/SA gun or one that is converted to DAO...usually in the area of 7-8 pounds.

The Kahr line of pistols are striker fired DAO pistols...each trigger stroke moving the striker from mostly at rest to fully cocked before releasing it...has a trigger stroke which is often compared to a well tuned S&W K-frame (about 6 lbs)

It is often easier for a new shooter to shoot a DAO pistol more accurately than a SAO pistol as the longer trigger stoke mitigates against the temptation to flinch.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Springfield XD pistols are indeed technically SA pistols. It is a reason that in some competitions they are not as popular (because of the division they put a shooter in). Anyone who calls one a DAO gun is wrong and is just going on the assumption that all striker fired pistols are DAO.

This is correct. The Springfield XD and XDm line of pistols are SAO as their strikers are left at fully cocked by the movement of the slide.

This placed them, until this Oct, into a different class (in IDPA) than Glocks and M&Ps as all pistols in Stock Service Pistol (SSP) are supposed to be DAO or DA/SA