Data requests

[Remington1911]

I am with some people here, self learned, RTFM. Likely have some bad habits, but I still have both eyeballs and all my fingers so I can't be doing anything too wrong.

I have a couple books, and still refer to them, printed out a great deal of stuff from the internet and put it in a 3 ring binder. Stuff from mfg. sites as well as load data dot com. That place is handy if you are looking for old out of production calibers, or things like youth loads for specific flavors. Really the "book" for me now is the internet, just the way it is now. I imagine the days of the "book" are numbered.

Edit to add, I also bought quick load, and use it from time to time but not like I thought I would.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This is the kind of thread that gets the jokers at Reddit/Reloading drooling in anticipation of the fun they’ll have helping naive newbies blow up their guns.

I read it on the internet so it must be true.

I know, I know - “But...but... Reading is HARD. Math is HARD. Thinking is HARD. Just tell me what to do so I can complain when it goes wrong!” Good luck with that.

 

[mcb]

I own very few physical reloading manuals. There is so much good data that is free online and up to date with the latest powders and bullets, that is pretty much all I use for most of my reloading. I love Hodgdon's online reloading data base, so much data, so easy to use. Alliant Powders has good data too but access is not as slick. All the powder manufactures and a few of the bullet manufactures share free data that has good pressure data with it. Data that has peak pressure, velocity, and barrel length in addition to the recipe is my favorite.

I also have found a couple repositories for digital copies of old out of print manuals. This has come in handy when working with old obsolete cartridges. That has also been the only time I have really asked for data from my fellow members here. When I was working up loads for my 38/200 and 455 Webley's I ask members here to see what data they could find in their own collection of old manuals since no one is currently publishing data for those two old cartridges.

And with Quickloads (before that I used NABM a similar internal ballistic simulator) I have been know to create loads completely from scratch base on the software and ~40 years of reloading experience. YMMV on that for sure. I was reloading 450 Bushmaster before Hodgdon or Alliant published data. My own loads, with the help of Quickloads came out very close to what Hodgdon published a year or so later.

 

[Charlie98]

I taught myself to reload 40 years ago by reading BOOKS.

It really depends on why people are asking.

In the past, I've asked for advice on certain loads. Either looking for suggestions on what might be particularly accurate, or what is commonly loaded because various sources do not agree with each other. This is despite having 4 manuals, and all the resources available from powder and bullet manufacturers.

Anyone who has been reloading more than about 20 years or so most likely cracked a book or two when they started reloading, that is not today. There is VALID loading data to be found online, for zero cost. It is still 'published' data... just in a database, not a book (although much of it is, in one incarnation or another.) Welcome to the 21st Century.

Wrong is right, too... I have conflicting data in two different manuals from the same manufacturer! (That is, Speer's #11 and #14) I've been loading for about 35 years and I still ask 'noob' questions sometimes. Unless you are working with the exact same components listed in the data, there is a question about what is correct... think different bullet profile, primer type, powder formulation, etc, etc. As an experienced handloader, I can usually handle it... but even I have a desire to refine what I'm looking at... with input from a forum, with the understanding that it's anecdotal. Further, most load recipes will give anywhere from 6 to 30 powders! Asking 'what is the best load?' might actually be interpreted as 'Jeepers, which powder is a good powder to start with?'

There is a BUNCH of data here, worked up by THR members. My favorite example is WST in the 9mm; very little current data is available for that combination... yet that subject has it's own THREAD for Heaven's sake.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I asked about a powder a while back, and if anyone has used it in any cartridges. I got an answer, Now I know where in MY manuals to look...I thanked the respondents for their time. Honestly, I just wanted to join in the fun. I know this post was not about me, I just had an experience to share. Thanks.

That’s a safe and sane way to operate.

I have never followed non-published data. Not even from folks on THR.

I have 16 loaded 45ACP cartridges with 4.9gr of Bullseye & 230gr RN plated bullets that at least one regular poster here has said is their fave. But since I have not found that load published by a reputable, verifiable source I haven’t tried them.

 

[mcb]

That’s a safe and sane way to operate.

I have never followed non-published data. Not even from folks on THR.

I have 16 loaded 45ACP cartridges with 4.9gr of Bullseye & 230gr RN plated bullets that at least one regular poster here has said is their fave. But since I have not found that load published by a reputable, verifiable source I haven’t tried them.

Alliant has data for Bullseye pushing 230gr CPRN right on their website... 6.0gr...

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=35

 

[CQB45ACP]

Alliant has data for Bullseye pushing 230gr CPRN right on their website... 6.0gr...

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=35

Yes I know but I said 4.9

 

[EricBu]

Doesn't bother me. I'm happy to do a little tiny bit to grow the sport. Our youngest generations are not getting into the shooting sports in percentages that are conducive to the long term sustainable growth of this industry, especially with regards to reloading. They are also a generation who never learned to do real research (and that's our fault boys, we're the ones on watch when the school systems fell apart), and every answer they needed or wanted to hear, accurate or inaccurate, has always been at their fingertips. By all means, try and add a little bit of "how to fish" along with valid and safe load data, but don't crap on them for asking. For every one that gets crapped on, 10 more stumble onto this forum looking for the same information, and read the thread where somebody was crapped on for asking a question...those might have been 10 people that with a little encouragement, came into the hobby with enthusiasm, and might have been 10 more votes down the road to stop a stupid gun law, or ammo law. Be an ambassador, cross aisles, and remember that words have consequences. I'm the biggest ******* in the room, so when I say things like this, it ought to carry a bit more weight.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Doesn't bother me. I'm happy to do a little tiny bit to grow the sport. Our youngest generations are not getting into the shooting sports in percentages that are conducive to the long term sustainable growth of this industry, especially with regards to reloading. They are also a generation who never learned to do real research (and that's our fault boys, we're the ones on watch when the school systems fell apart), and every answer they needed or wanted to hear, accurate or inaccurate, has always been at their fingertips. By all means, try and add a little bit of "how to fish" along with valid and safe load data, but don't crap on them for asking. For every one that gets crapped on, 10 more stumble onto this forum looking for the same information, and read the thread where somebody was crapped on for asking a question...those might have been 10 people that with a little encouragement, came into the hobby with enthusiasm, and might have been 10 more votes down the road to stop a stupid gun law, or ammo law. Be an ambassador, cross aisles, and remember that words have consequences. I'm the biggest ******* in the room, so when I say things like this, it ought to carry a bit more weight.

Absolutely, cross aisles, at Kroger.

 

[mcb]

Yes I know but I said 4.9

That is less than a 20% reduction from the Max suggested load. You might be being a bit overly cautious, but you do you...

 

[CQB45ACP]

That is less than a 20% reduction from the Max suggested load. You might be being a bit overly cautious, but you do you...

And you are the reason I don’t do internet advice, but you do you.

And this is what Alliant says:

“REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.”

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

 

[AJC1]

There are many sources that have data that are paid. As an example I was gifted an article from reloader magazine on 7.7 arasaka. I also find that older manuals have loads with powders not commonly used anymore. Heck my 50th Lyman doesn't have a unique load for 357 mag and a cast lead bullet. For current 223/9mm when asked I'll provide links to one of the digital data sets.

 

[Buzznrose]

Yikes.

That is scary to you?

If I’m using load data from the company that manufactures the powder, how exactly is that scary?

And if I read a post from a long time accomplished reloader on how a certain load works better or worse in their experience, and I use that advice for a starting point after checking with the company that it’s within limits, why is that an issue?

When you read a reloading manual, aren’t you doing the same thing, but taking it from a static point in time?

I have nothing against manuals. But there is all the data I need online from reliable sources.

YMMV

 

[Charlie98]

I have 16 loaded 45ACP cartridges with 4.9gr of Bullseye & 230gr RN plated bullets

Alliant has data for Bullseye pushing 230gr CPRN right on their website... 6.0gr...

See...? This is where ambiguity rears it's ugly head.

CQB says 'RN plated bullet,' not being brand specific. MCB posts data... the wrong data. The Speer CPRN bullet, specifically, has significantly different data than the Speer TMJ RN bullet... as posted in Alliant's online data. They are both 'plated' bullets? Yes? But what data set is valid for CQB's 'plated' bullet?

 

[lightman]

While I feel that every reloader should have at least one book I also feel that as a veteran reloader that I should try to help fellow reloaders or newbies when I can.

I'm old fashioned enough that I still rely on books but the internet is full of data. Hodgdon even had data on the front of their 1# cans!

 

[James Petti]

Which source is better? Hard copy or electronic? Bullet maker or powder maker? It's the data that matters. Like Ford or Chevy. Neither company knows where or how well or even if you learned to drive. They assume that you can. Both will get you where you need to go, assuming you know your part.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I like having the data from different sources. My Hornday manual. Has been very useful for loading for my mini 14 and 327 magnum.My over all fave are my Lyman books. The Hornady has powders the Lyman's do not. I don't mind helping a newbie. I usually recommend they get a few loading books too.

 

[gwpercle]

I don't mind helping people who might not have the extensive data I have collected over the last 50 + years . A fellow purchased a large supply of Green Dot powder ... none of his new manuals had handgun data with Green Dot . It is now listed as a Shotgun Powder because of marketing reasons ... Green Dot was cutting into the new powders they had come out with for handguns ...
He had only new manuals and no Green Dot Data ...1970's reloading manuals (Speer especially) have plenty as it was popular ... I was glad to send him some data .
Same thing happened when a fellow inherited his Dad's reloading setup and several containers of Alcan #5 ... Look in a new manual and see how much data there is for Alcan Powders ...
I'll tell you ... 0 ... nada... zip ... nothing , Speer #8 , #9 , #10 from the 1970's is loaded with Alcan Data ... I was glad to help him out . Two containers of Alcan #5 is in my cabinet and I can still load with it because I have the data ,
I don't mind helping someone out ... on the tricky reloading questions .
Gary

 

[Mark_Mark]

Just get a Lyman! they are the biggest and best thing since BB of Guns.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Which source is better? Hard copy or electronic? Bullet maker or powder maker? It's the data that matters. Like Ford or Chevy. Neither company knows where or how well or even if you learned to drive. They assume that you can. Both will get you where you need to go, assuming you know your part.

The source of the data is my guidepost not the type (print v electronic). If it’s a reputable/verifiable source I’ll accept it. So, what does that mean to me? Bullet maker, powder mfr, primer mfr, brass mfr., ammo mfr, a book or magazine publisher. A reloading equipment mfr or large retailer. But not you, nor if I were you, me.

 

[Soonerpesek]

have never followed non-published data. Not even from folks on THR.

I have 16 loaded 45ACP cartridges with 4.9gr of Bullseye & 230gr RN plated bullets that at least one regular poster here has said is their fave. But since I have not found that load published by a reputable, verifiable source I haven’t tried them.

I would have to ask..............................why did you load them then.................?

 

[CQB45ACP]

I would have to ask..............................why did you load them then.................?

Because I enjoy loading, have limitless resources, have nearly that much time, am “working up” (or actually, down) a load, while also seeking published data. Let’s see…does that about cover it?

 

[Soonerpesek]

Because I enjoy loading, have limitless resources, have nearly that much time, am “working up” (or actually, down) a load, while also seeking published data. Let’s see…does that about cover it?

no.
My question is as to why you say you don't follow internet data, but you loaded 16 rounds per internet forum data...........................
then you complain that you don't use internet data..................................

Maybe I misunderstood your post............................

 

[CQB45ACP]

no.
My question is as to why you say you don't follow internet data, but you loaded 16 rounds per internet forum data...........................
then you complain that you don't use internet data..................................

Maybe I misunderstood your post............................

I don’t use it, but it’s a statement not a complaint. Anyway, I anticipated finding published data to verify/validate/confirm that load and then use it.

 

[Soonerpesek]

I don’t use it, but it’s a statement not a complaint. Anyway, I anticipated finding published data to verify/validate/confirm that load and then use it.

Like I sed.......................musta misunderstood.............my apologies....................