Dave, What exactly was the problem with the Win 1200/1300?

[Pinned&Recessed]

Dave, sir I would like to pick your (and anybody else's) brain for a few moments.

You have mentioned in the past that you worked with correctional and police agencies and are a shotgun guru. Therefore I think you may know a bit about what I am asking.

I recently posted a thread where I mentioned that purchased a Winchester 1300. You have talked about how the older 1200 was so bad and unreliable that no agency would touch it, but that Winchester redesigned it and the 1300 was born.

What exactly were the problems people had with the 1200? Failure to fire/extract/eject/feed, parts breakage? Did Winchester exorcize the demons for the 1300, or does the 1300 series still have any of the 1200 shortcomings?

I know that if left unsupervised, cops and soldiers can break cannonballs, but now some seeds of doubt have been planted as to the reliability of my new shotgun. I'll probably never use it as hard as a police officer would, but knowing that it could take the abuse is comforting.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Cameron Lamont]

Hi, I am definitely not Dave but I can ease your mind a little.

I purchased a NIB Win 1300 Defender a little while back. I now have about 18,000 12 guage shells through it without so much as a singel glitch that I am not to blame for.
I haven't replced any parts, but I do break it down and qucikly clean it after each outing.

Yes it is not a typo it is 18,000.
I have posted other threads about this Winchester, and i will continue to do my best to wear it out.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[TNT]

The Winchester 1300 is a excellent shotgun. I have had no problems with the three of mine.

 

[dfariswheel]

As I said in a post earlier today in this forum, the problems with the Winchester guns was a simple inability to stand "the guff" of police and military use, (or mis-use).

If it had been a problem with any specific malfunction or part breaking, Winchester could and would have fixed it. The problem was a systemic one, and is just inherent in the design.

Also again, anecdotal information of the "My Winchester has X thousand shells through it, and never fails", and the "I had an 870 that broke with the first shot" are interesting, but the proof is when you put 40,000 guns into police service, and see what the durability and failure rate is.

It's tough to argue, when you put thousands of your guns into police service, and after they've used them for a time they dump them, buy another brand, and absolutely refuse to buy your gun again.

The bottom line is, the Winchester just didn't stand up in service, and no police or military unit will touch them.

This doesn't mean the Winchester is a bad gun for "civilian" use, it just means it wasn't up to police and military use.

 

[Dave McCracken]

First off, if anyone mistook me for a guru the light must have been bad. I do know some things, but guruship is beyond my poor talents. Call me an enthuisaist a little further along than some.

And the 1200, when kept clean and maintained even so-so, seems to be a nice light duty piece. Not for a 1K shells month trap jones, but a good upland gun.

The Correctional 1200s failed to feed, failed to fire, and one had a bent action bar. Possibly one of our gorillas in uniform was impatient. Another froze up so bad from rust(not the weapon's fault)that it took a rubber mallet, 4 hands and elbow grease to get it safe and unloaded.

And many folks have taken me to task, since they've had faithful service from their 1200s for decades.

I think a 1200 or 1300 is not the best choice for agency weapons. For those of us not sharing lackadaisically maintained weapons with half trained, unmotivated ignorami, the preceding applies not.

 

[Pinned&Recessed]

Originally posted by Dave McCracken
For those of us not sharing lackadaisically maintained weapons with half trained, unmotivated ignorami

I think this is the crux of the issue. I am fanatical about weapons care and cleaning. My guns are used, and used hard in some instances, but not abused. I also clean religiously. You could perfrom surgery or cook on my guns, they are so clean. I'm anal, but I also do not want a failure at an inopportune moment.

Perhaps the 1300 shares more than basic design cues with the AR-15. Both are rugged and can take hard use, but they must be well-cared for and maintained. I can do that.

Thanks everybody.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Truly the crux, P&R. Like other firearms including High Standard 22s Supermatics,PM and cleaning is demanded for top performance.

And I'd venture a guess that you're careful, not anal.