De-cocking S&W 686p

[SolidChoice]

I've been practicing de-cocking my S&W 686p. From what I've read, the proper way to do this is to put my thumb under the hammer, pull the trigger, take my finger out of the trigger guard, and slowly lower the hammer.

This works about half the time, but often, the hammer seems to get stuck in a half-cocked position. Am I doing something wrong, or is there something wrong with the gun?

 

[shockwave]

What I do with mine is to put my thumb on the spur of the hammer, pull the trigger, and let the barrel move upward to release the pressure. In other words, you don't guide the hammer down, but you let the gun move upward in the hand. It's a smooth motion and one worth practicing until you can do it reliably and safely.

 

[svtruth]

When I do it

first, safe direction
second, prepare for a slip and a "surprise" detonation
third, lower the hammer
good luck.

 

[loneviking]

This works about half the time, but often, the hammer seems to get stuck in a half-cocked position. Am I doing something wrong, or is there something wrong with the gun?

Keep your finger on the trigger until the trigger resets. You'll know as you'll feel the trigger 'pop' forward. And, as Shockwave said, let the gun roll up in your hand to take the pressure off. Practice,practice, practice and do so with snapcaps until this becomes second nature.

 

[MedWheeler]

Ditto on Shockwave's.. don't "lower the hammer"; instead, "raise the gun" up to it, starting from a safe direction, of course.

 

[BCRider]

... like while pointed at a big bucket of sand if it has live rounds in it. Or a handy garden if you're outside.

 

[Guillermo]

you have to keep the trigger pulled in order to drop the hammer all the way

 

[kludge]

you have to keep the trigger pulled in order to drop the hammer all the way

NO!

This defeats the safety.

WARNING: FAILURE TO REMOVE YOUR FINGER
FROM THE TRIGGER GUARD AS SOON AS THE
HAMMER RELEASES COULD CAUSE THE
REVOLVER TO FIRE IF YOUR THUMB SLIPS OFF OF THE
HAMMER SPUR.

CAUTION: INCOMPLETE DECOCKING
Failure to release the trigger and to withdraw your finger from the
trigger guard immediately after the hammer has come out of the
cocked position may result in the interruption of the forward
movement of the hammer between the cocked position and
the “at rest” position. In this case, the hammer will appear to have
stopped in between the full cock and “at rest” positions. If this
occurs, keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard
while returning the hammer with your thumb to the fully cocked
position. Then properly decock the hammer to the “at rest” position
following the decocking procedures outlined above

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/S&W_Revolver_Manual.pdf

page 22-23.

SolidChoice - Using the thumb is another layer of safety. In most cases you don't need to decock quickly. But it is always important to do it safely.

 

[Old Fuff]

you have to keep the trigger pulled in order to drop the hammer all the way

Almost, but not quite. What is happening in that the trigger has rotated far enough forward so that is is under the sear on the hammer face. At this point a ledge on the trigger is preventing the hammer from going further unless both the trigger and hammer move together.

In the Old Fuff's opinion - based on experience with other people's mishaps - is that if a hammer doesn't have a generous cocking spur the single-action mode should be removed and the revolver converted to double-action-only. Otherwise you are asking for trouble, and sooner or later you'll get it.

Of course this is not what some folks want to hear, so I'll go get my flame resistant underwear...

... like while pointed at a big bucket of sand if it has live rounds in it. Or a handy garden if you're outside.

BCRider has a point, and you also don't what to do it while sitting in the front seat of a patrol car while in a stake-out operation...

 

[Guillermo]

I'll go get my flame resistant underwear

nobody flames the Fuff!!!

 

[Guillermo]

if a hammer doesn't have a generous cocking spur the single-action mode should be removed and the revolver converted to double-action-only

Absolutely!!!

When letting a hammer down you need a firm grip on the hammer!!!

 

[earlthegoat2]

BCRider has a point, and you also don't what to do it while sitting in the front seat of a patrol car while in a stake-out operation...

That happened to you too, huh?

 

[loneviking]

Old Fuff:

Almost, but not quite. What is happening in that the trigger has rotated far enough forward so that is is under the sear on the hammer face. At this point a ledge on the trigger is preventing the hammer from going further unless both the trigger and hammer move together.

Which means that at that point, you need to get your finger off the trigger and allow it to travel forward to the hammer down position. Which seems to contradict the S&W manual cited above, but the instructions to which I could never seem to make work as they are written.

And you'll get no argument from me on the small hammer comment. That's why my semi-autos are Sigs with decockers!

 

[Steve_NEPhila]

I propose the 100% solution, never cock the hammer!!! I know it sounds crazy but those turny guns work real well in double action.

(Caution rant) I see people at the range all the time shooting a great double action revolver by cocking the hammer back for each shot. There is absolutely no need to do so. With excellent training and loads of practice one can shoot double action as well if not better then by cocking the hammer (I do). While you are at it, feel free to have a gunsmith shave off that annoying hammer spur.

The mark of one hell of a pistolero in modern times is a spurless hammer revolver in a leather holster, in my opinion.

 

[Guillermo]

That happened to you too, huh?

why are you guys cocking your guns in the car? Hate your partner?

 

[Old Fuff]

Well no, the patrol car incident didn't happen to me...

It seems that it was late at night, or more likely the early A.M., and this young officer who's name we won't mention was on a stake-out all by himself in this patrol car. Since he was bored to death he started fiddling with his back-up, which had a bobbed hammer and still retained the single-action feature.

Somehow he got it cocked, and when he went to lower the hammer (in the dark yet), something went wrong, and there was a blinding flash of light and a loud noise...

I got into this picture when his Chief sent him to see me, relative to a further modification to his revolver. It was to become DAO, or have the hammer replaced with a conventional one. I should mention that the Chief was in no way a happy camper.

So far I have been involved in two additional cases of the same kind, but not necessarily involving a police car.

Thus I will not bob a hammer unless I also eliminate the full-cock notch in the process.

 

[Guillermo]

Thus I will not bob a hammer unless I also eliminate the full-cock notch in the process.

so when I find a good deal on an old pencil barrel DS and I send it to you to Fitz it up it will come back DAO and bobbed?

 

[earlthegoat2]

For the record, I never did that either. The guy sitting next to me that I hesitate to call my partner did though. With a Bodyguard no less. So what does he do? Why goes wide eyed and basically throws it to me.

Going against all instinct I let it drop in my lap rather than grab for it. Yell at him to get out of the car and not to touch it. Whereupon I got out of the car and using an oak tree as a backstop deckocked it and put in my pocket and did not give it back until shift was over.

This guy really was good with firearms handling I just think the boredom got to him that night. I ended up trading him a Centennial I had for his Bodyguard so it would hopefully never happen again.

 

[Old Fuff]

so when I find a good deal on an old pencil barrel DS and I send it to you to Fitz it up it will come back DAO and bobbed?

Absolutely!! And anything else too that's bobbed. This is one point where I didn't see eye-to-eye with Fitz, but to his credit the people he delt with weren't the kind that went around getting their "Specials" unintentionally cocked.

Also some customers specified, "leave the hammer as it is," and I would be O.K. on that.

 

[Guillermo]

you have probably seen all kinds

"would you put a scope on my derringer?" or "please make my 3" Python into a Fitz"

 

[Old Fuff]

Well sure... I'll make YOUR three inch Python into a Fitz...

 

[Guillermo]

I'll make YOUR three inch Python into a Fitz

no you wouldn't

you would buy a 4 inch and cut it down and give it to me, keeping the 3 for yourself

 

[SDShooter]

Very informative thread. I just tried it both ways. As S&W warns, if I hold the trigger back, and lower the hammer, it drops all the way to the fire position, so if my thumb were to slip off the hammer, it would go bang. If I release the trigger immediately after the hammer releases, it will only fall to the safe position. If I delay releasing the trigger slightly, the hammer will stop at a "half-cocked" position. From this position, the gun will fire, and if the hammer is pulled back slightly and released, it will fall to the 'safe' position. I don't usually shoot single action, but this is something I need to practice.

 

[Old Fuff]

SDShooter:

If I release the trigger immediately after the hammer releases, it will only fall to the safe position. If I delay releasing the trigger slightly, the hammer will stop at a "half-cocked" position. From this position, the gun will fire, and if the hammer is pulled back slightly and released, it will fall to the 'safe' position.

THERE ARE NO HALF-COCK OR SAFETY NOTCHES ON A S&W HAMMER!!!

You need to better understand how your double-action revolver works before you go any further.

A little lever, called a "sear" is mounted in the front face of the hammer. The trigger has a little lip or ledge that can push on the bottom of this lever and as the trigger is pulled in the double-action mode the ledge rotates upward and forward. Since it is pushing on the bottom of the sear, it causes the hammer to rotate backwards, until the ledge rotates out of contact with the sear, and the hammer falls and fires the cartridge in the chamber in front of it.

With the hammer in the forward position, you release the trigger and the ledge on the trigger now rotates downward and forward. As it does so it depresses the sear, and it is pushed back into the hammer. When the ledge has gone far enough so that it is below the sear, the sear pops out to its original position because there is a spring behind it. Because the sear pivots having the ledge catch the hammer while you lower the hammer is not a certain thing, and the sear was never intended to be, or to be used for, some kind of a safety while lowering the hammer.

Unfortunately what works with other handguns, such as 1911 platform pistols or certain Single Action revolvers does not do the same in most hand-ejector/double-action revolvers, and this observation includes but in not limited to Colt, Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus.

When you pull the trigger all of the way back and hold it, ALL OF THE SAFETY DEVICES THAT PREVENT AN UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE ARE DISCONECTED, AND THEY DO NOT BECOME FULLY FUNCTIONAL UNTIL THE RELEASED TRIGGER IS ALL OF THE WAY FORWARD!

I strongly recommend that any revolver that has less then a full sized cocking spur on the hammer be modified to double-action only (DAO). Otherwise do not cock the hammer while the cylinder is loaded. If you must cock a revolver with a bobbed hammer spur, point the muzzle in a safe direction, AND EXPECT THE POSSIBILITY OF AN UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE!!!

 

[BCRider]

"Half cock" is certainly the wrong term but it describes how the hammer hangs up on some part of the internal mechanism. I just tried three of my four S&W's and one has this "half cock" position where it hangs up while the other two didn't. Without lifting the sideplates off to see what is causing it it's hard to say. The other two did not hang up regardless of how little I moved the hammer from the sear release point.

And yes, on all three guns holding the trigger back is a recipe for an AD if the hammer slips. But if the trigger is released early in the hammer's lowering it comes to rest on the hammer block position. On the one gun that hung up at the halfway position pulling it back until it clicks with my FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER then allowed it to be lowered to the safety rest position. In all the cases where the safety rest position was the stop point none of them could be pushed beyound that and allow the firing pin to move into the area where the primers would be.

The key is to have total control of the hammer. Using a two handed grip and pulling the hammer back with the thumb of the support hand first before pulling the trigger ensures that there is good contact with the hammer's spur and that the spring tension is fully under control. From there pulling the trigger and holding it while slowly lowering the hammer until it's past the full cock position and then releasing the trigger so that the hammer is lowering onto the safety rest position reduces the risk of an AD.

Some practice with an unloaded gun and doing it sight unseen while watching TV or the like would (should?) soon cement the method into anyone's skillset. With a nice two handed grip and the thumb layed well over the spur so it's making contact somewhere around midway to the first joint there's a good degree of control.