De-Escalation???

[RetiredUSNChief]

Some may disagree, but I believe the gun is the last resort. You must exhaust all other options before pulling the gun out. Two guys wrestling with your friend on the losing end? Grab one and pull him off.
Too many people think only of the gun and use it as the first option. It has to be an unambiguous matter of life or death before the iron makes its appearance.

Some good points.


A synopsis of the definition of "deadly force" I learned while in the Navy:

"Deadly force is that amount of force which I know, or should know, will cause serious bodily harm or death, to be used as a last resort when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be used."

(Emphasis mine.)

While the specifics of when deadly force is authorized for the military do not all apply to civilians, the definition of deadly force that I learned in the Navy is a pretty darned accurate synopsis of the foundation upon which civilian laws on deadly force are based.


You do not HAVE to "exhaust all other options" IF it is not reasonable to do so.

When is it NOT reasonable to exhaust all other options? Well, therein lies the challenge. Understanding your jurisdictional laws is key to this...and more, exercising your brain BEFOREHAND as part of a routine training process is an absolute must in learning how to CORRECTLY apply the jurisdictional laws to various real-life scenarios.

This is why, I believe, that THR has the "Strategies, Tactics and Training" forum. We can post threads about various real-life (and hypothetical) situations and discuss the merits of each using our understanding of those very same jurisdictional laws. And through peer review and criticism, we can work our way though to a decent understanding of HOW to correctly interpret and apply these laws.


Every real-life encounter of violence is unique...and not only that, almost all of them will have lots of "gray areas", if only because most are not lucky enough to be clearly recorded for accurate review later. You can bet that if deadly force IS used, it WILL be very closely scrutinized afterwards to see whether or not the laws on deadly force were followed to a "reasonable person" standard. And if you go to court..."reasonable person" will be based on the jury's understanding of the events and the law.

 

[Averageman]

If you take the saying "It takes two to Tango" to heart and look at this situation the obvious answer when confronted by someone who appears to be a "Whackadoodle" is to remove yourself from the mix.
When confronted simply move to another location, the more people (Witnesses) at that location the better. Use your cell phone when you've reached your safety zone and call the Police.
Just because you have a gun, certainly doesn't mean you have to use it. Use your head first, seek a safe distance from disorder, take appropriate action by notifying the authorities and move on with your life.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by RetiredUSNChief:

the definition of deadly force that I learned in the Navy is a pretty darned accurate synopsis of the foundation upon which civilian laws on deadly force are based.

The definition of deadly force is essentially the same, but the justification differs in that for a Naval unit, the required element of necessity pertains to carrying out an essential military objective, while for civilians, it pertains to self preservation or to the justified protection of others.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Posted by RetiredUSNChief:The definition of deadly force is essentially the same, but the justification differs in that for a Naval unit, the required element of necessity pertains to carrying out an essential military objective, while for civilians, it pertains to self preservation or to the justified protection of others.

Exactly.

Which is why I prefaced the part you quoted with "While the specifics of when deadly force is authorized for the military do not all apply to civilians..."

It would have been better if I had also included what you just said as well, though.

 

[JN01]

The article said the guy walked with a cane. Perhaps he could have deployed it in a non lethal manner to help out his buddy without going to his gun.