Dealer Doing Transfer Wants *MY* License?

[Cosmoline]

I just got a message that the ffl handling an out of state short gun transfer has demanded a copy of *my* driver's license. I'm not buying, and the seller sent me this person's FFL form. It was shipped fed ex, which in the past has always been the end of such transactions for me. I have never heard of a dealer needing the transferor's driver's license or needing to do a check on the transferor. Is this a new regulation? If so I will comply, otherwise I never give out copies of the thing.

 

[TallPine]

I'm confused ... are you selling or buying a gun ???

 

[scott22]

"I'm not buying, and the seller sent me this person's FFL form."

Very confusing in deed... from the rest I take it your selling. But you did a pretty bad job getting that across... maybe I'm just drunk dunno. Either way, I have never heard of the seller having to send the buyer his D/L.

 

[mikle76]

I'm not sure if it is required but I'm not new to that way of doing things. If my DL is requested I comply. Even if it is not required by law doesn't mean the man with the FFL gives a rip. You start running the risk of PO'ing everybody involved which can be bad for future transactions. Just my 2 pennies

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm confused ... are you selling or buying a gun ???

I'm selling on an interstate sale through an FFL, and the FFL has demanded a copy of MY license. I'm not buying any firearms, and the buyer selected this dealer. So I assume he's not running a background check on *me* as the seller. I can't think of any reason why the dealer would need to verify my ID. I know this particular firearm isn't stolen because I know the seller and actually saw him buy it from Gunrunners. I was literally standing right there. But obviously if the SN came up stolen the POLICE would have a right to ask for my info and talk to me. I can't see how a third party dealer would have any such preemptive right. It's a violation of my privacy.

 

[yahkohb]

my FFL always records the shipper's info in his transfers log (although I don't recall if this is a legal/ATF requirement or just something he does). so I've never though much of it when an FFL to whom I was shipping directly requested a copy of my ID... probably just a CYA maneuver on their part.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

When receiving a firearm from a Non-Licensee, I always demand a copy of the sender/sellers DL.
A FFL must document the origin of the firearm.
Most FFL's will not accept a firearm from a Non-Licensee anymore.

If the BATFE comes calling and asks where a gun came from, what do I show them? The address on the box?

I staple a copy of the DL to the 4473, same thing I do with a copy of a FFL.

With the ATF looking for reasons to close down dealers it's CYA all the way.

 

[Chipperman]

I sold a pistol across state lines last year. The FFL in the other state wanted a copy of my DL. Pretty standard CYA practice.

 

[Cosmoline]

If the BATFE comes calling and asks where a gun came from, what do I show them? The address on the box?

Yes. If there's no regulation requiring more why would more be required? What business does the BATF have running checks on SELLERS? I am not a dealer and I'm not subject to the same privacy intrusions a dealer must put up with. As long as I comply with the law and ship via common carrier to a licensed dealer that should be the end of it for me. I have no bound books to be inspected and I need not submit to BATF inquiry absent a court order. My private information remains private, or it ought to. Now if I give them my driver's license it's attached to the dealer's file even though I am not a license holder and I am not doing business in firearms.

I'll likely send it in this case just to keep the deal squared away, but I really do not like this. I esp. don't like a dealer who doesn't bother to tell anyone about their requirement until the shipment is complete. It's sleazy and arrogant.

 

[Archer1945]

I would wonder about any dealer you've done business in the past who didn't ask for a copy of your DL. Every dealer I've done business with even FTF has asked for my DL.

 

[45Badger]

Pretty standard with all the guns I have shipped. If they go through my dealer, his FFL is in box. If I ship direct, copy of my driver license (# and DOB blacked out) go in box. If my guy is receiving a gun for me, he wants FFL or driver's license in box.

When doing FTF I ask to see other persons drivers license, and show them mine. I want to know that my buyer/seller is a same state resident, and I ask if they are legally allowed to own gun. We don't swap numbers, write down info, or anything else. I want to be able to honestly say to any investigator, "No, I do not recall the seller's/buyer's name or address. I think we met at xyz gun show or walmart parking lot. He showed me his PA license, verified that he was of appropriate age, and that he was not prohibited from possessing firearms." End of story and no laws broken. Until next January......:banghead:

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Don't worry about it. Some state require it and other dealers just want to prevent fraud. Some will ask for a copy of their receiving FFL signed in red or blue ink.

I'd assume that the penalties are rather harsh if a dealer knowingly participates in a fraudulent straw purchase. There are too many bad apples out there trying to ruin it for the rest of the law-abiding public so I personally have no problem with it.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd assume that the penalties are rather harsh if a dealer knowingly participates in a fraudulent straw purchase.

How does that have to do with MY license, though? I'm not buying anything. I'm not even paying the dealer or asking him to consign the firearm. I have nothing to do with any of it. The straw purchase problem is resolved by having the BUYER fill out the forms and show HIS license.

I would wonder about any dealer you've done business in the past who didn't ask for a copy of your DL. Every dealer I've done business with even FTF has asked for my DL.

I've dealt with a solid dozen of them from Washington to VA and this is the first one who demanded my license. Some have asked for a copy of a sales agreement, which I'm more than happy to provide. But my license photo and info is private and subject to abuse if handed out to the wrong people.

You are from Missouri it appears, and this transfer was to that state, so maybe this is a state thing. It just seems like the red tape gets thicker every time.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I have shipped a dozen and half firearms to other states to FFL's after eceiving the money from a seller of course.
I always make sure the buyer gets it okayed that his/her FFL will accept from a non FFL. if not I am not shipping thru my ffl's in my area the cheapest one is 65.00 just to take in, not including shipping
I have never been asked to send a copy of my ID, and I won't too many ID theft's going on and why should I begin to worry about where that ID info is going?
If a FFL was to say they wanted a copy of my ID *after* I shipped it, tuff I am not sending it, should have told me that in the beginning....
I got nothing to hide, have a ccw.

 

[GRB]

Yes. If there's no regulation requiring more why would more be required? What business does the BATF have running checks on SELLERS?

Maybe it is a state regulation in the state to which you shipped, or maye a local regulation. Maybe it is just the FFL asking for it. So what.

Of course, if you do not want to give it to him don't, and have him send the friearm back to you at his expense if you already shipped. If you have not shipped, then tell the buyer to use another FFL dealer. Otherwise just send it to him with the D/L number deleted, and your DOB deleted. Just too much identity theft out there today.

By the way, his asking you for the D/L copy, or saying he needs it, is not a violation of your privacy. His making you give it to him would be a violation. He cannot make you give it to him; but he can choose to do business how he wants and it is up to you to comply or not.

All the best,
GB

 

[Cosmoline]

I can't be too hard-nosed about it without hurting the buyer which I'm not willing to do. Still it irritates me no end.

 

[GRB]

I always ask buyers of firearms, knives, ammunition that I sell to send me a copy of their D/L, but I'll admit I do not rememebr ever having to send my license when I sold something. I can understand how it seems bothersome, but it is probably just someone trying to be ultra careful in todays world of overzealous enforcement of firearms regs.

Best regards,
GB

 

[jwmtx]

What if you, like me, don't have a drivers license?

 

[Cosmoline]

That's a good point too. I suppose they'd accept a state issued ID. In fact mine is currently expired so technically I don't have one until I get a new one tomorrow at the DMV. I rarely drive a car in the summer.

 

[MDW GUNS]

As Karl already stated, the ATF of cause wants to know how an FFL got to the firearm.
I ask as well for the DL and I check both the DL and serial number if there is anything "on record".
This way I found in now 5 years one stolen gun I did not pass on to my customer!
Is it the law to record the DL of the seller?
No, but I am not transfering a gun without this information, so that my customer and I am protected!

 

[karlsgunbunker]

How does that have to do with MY license, though? I'm not buying anything. I'm not even paying the dealer or asking him to consign the firearm. I have nothing to do with any of it. The straw purchase problem is resolved by having the BUYER fill out the forms and show HIS license.

1. You shipped a firearm to my business from another state.
2. I don't know you from Adam.
3. Are you over 18?
4. Is the firearm yours to sell?

If I don't ask for ID from a non-licensee, he could be a 15yr old kid selling Daddy's gun over the internet.

It's not personal and it's not about you or your (NOT) private ID.(An ID BTW that you show to cash checks, buy liquour,Tobacco etc.)

It's About ME and my personal comfort level with the transfer of a firearm.
It's About ME and my license and my Business that may be put at risk.
Basically it's My License, My Rules.
I keep lots of personal information about my customers, more than most business'.
I have DL#, SS#, all on the 4473.
I don't share that information and I won't share yours.

If the BATFE needs to trace a firearm, I want more than an address on a Box/Receipt to show where I aquired it.

Just for my peace of mind.

 

[TAB]

I don't understand why this is such a deal.

 

[Linda]

I don't understand why this is such a deal.

Me neither, unless you have something to hide.

At the gun store I work at, if someone wants to sell us a used firearm, they will be producing a valid form of ID as well.

 

[rbernie]

I understand Cosmo's point - it's a loss of privacy thing. However, it is a common practice among those FFLs who still accept inbound transfers from non-FFLs.

I do not begrudge the FFL the right to dictate the terms under which they accept transfers. In general, many FFLs no longer are willing to even accept private transfers, so I pretty much play along with the rules for the ones who still do.

Wait until they ban private sales altogether.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I have DL#, SS#, all on the 4473.

Your points are well taken, and I don't object when my local gun shop photocopies my DL for every transaction. They must have a dozen or more copies of it by now. But ...

They don't have my SS#, and they ain't gonna get it. Filling in the SSAN on the 4473 is optional, and I don't fill out that space. If I were buying from/though your shop I wouldn't fill it out, either, and if you refused to sell to me because of that we'd be in court.