NY FFL Transfer Dilemma

[draven12]

I live in NY and recently bought a carbine off a gun auction site from a guy in Florida. When the gun got to my FFL dealer they tell me that it didn't come with the copy of an FFL dealer's license. They also tell me that it is illegal for a non-FFL to ship them a firearm, I need to get a hold of the seller and either have him send a copy of an FFL license or they would have to send it back to his FFL dealer to do it all over again. It doesn't look like he sent it through an FFL dealer though. I've been calling and emailing the seller for a couple of weeks and nothing. My carbine is now sitting in limbo at my FFL dealer. Is there anything I can do?

 

[docnyt]

Does your dealer accept transfers from individuals? If so, they will need a copy of the seller's Driver License. If they don't, you're SOL and the carbine will have to be sent back. Did the seller mention that he would send through an FFL? It pays to ask.

 

[xr1200]

Don't let your NY dealer BS you . Any FFL dealer in new york can have a long gun sent to them from a private individual, simply call up your local batf office and ask them. All the sender needs to do is send them a signed photo copy of his or her state ID or DL.

NYS only cares about handguns, coming in from out of state, not long guns.

The only other issue is if the carbine is considered an assaualt rifle in NYS, it depends when it was made and configuration of the rifle and magazine sent with the gun (date of MFG , and size).

The BS most dealers in NY and other US states is that they tell you they don't like to recieve any firearm from a private individual forsale or a transactions, because they are afraid the senders gun might be stolen and they have no way to check it. With out having the cops of feds run a check on it.

It is legal in most US states for private individual to send a long gun or hand gun to a dealer for sale, service or repair etc.

Handguns shipping is limited by some states NYS is one, Even california allows both long guns and pistols to a dealer.

 

[draven12]

I can't get a hold of the seller in anyway, I left voice mails and emails saying I would gladly cover the cost of having it sent back through an FFL dealer but nothing.

 

[xr1200]

If dealer doesn't get signed DL he will be forced to return it to sender.

You could contact the seller thru gun broker email and if he doesn't follow thru on helping you, then tell him, you will contact the BATF and report the transaction shipping problem to local batf investigators in his area.

Don't count on gun broker helping you much, the worst they can do is terminate his account.

 

[draven12]

If dealer doesn't get signed DL he will be forced to return it to sender.

You could contact the seller thru gun broker email and if he doesn't follow thru on helping you, then tell him, you will contact the BATF and report the transaction shipping problem to local batf investigators in his area. This should light a fire under his ass.

Don't count on gun broker helping you much, the worst they can do is terminate his account.

Its not considered an assault rifle, its just a pistol caliber carbine.

I guess I'll give the ATF a call, since hearing back from the seller is out of the question.

 

[xr1200]

I would first email the guy and tell him you are contacting the BATF if he doesn't fax a signed copy of his drivers license with in 48 hrs to the dealer. It may simply get the job done.

 

[mbogo]

This isn't the seller's problem, it's yours. You should have spoken to the dealer on your end PRIOR to having the gun sent to him.

A lot of the clowns who call themselves dealers on LI feel that they are entitled to cost you as much time and money as possible when not buying directly from them. I used to use Chester's in Suffolk County.

The gun will have to go back to the seller for re-shipping at your expense. Find a different dealer on LI who will handle your transaction without drama.or extra-legal requirements.

mbogo

 

[heyjoe]

It is legal in NY to have an individual ship a handgun directly to an FFL in order to do a transfer to you. I have had it done a number of times on handguns i have bought from other states. They did need a copy of their drivers license. If you can do it for handguns you can definitely do it for rifles. Unless you are doing this in NYC itself it sounds like BS on the part of your ffl.

 

[draven12]

This isn't the seller's problem, it's yours. You should have spoken to the dealer on your end PRIOR to having the gun sent to him.

A lot of the clowns who call themselves dealers on LI feel that they are entitled to cost you as much time and money as possible when not buying directly from them. I used to use Chester's in Suffolk County.

The gun will have to go back to the seller for re-shipping at your expense. Find a different dealer on LI who will handle your transaction without drama.or extra-legal requirements.

mbogo

Before I even paid, my FFL dealer told me they needed a copy of the FFL license sent with the gun. Which I told the seller, he still shipped the gun without it. Once it got to my FFL dealer the seller fell off he face of the planet. I would gladly pay to do it FFL to FFL but this guy won't respond to me.

 

[docnyt]

So who sent the carbine - the private seller or an FFL? If it was clear in your dealings with the seller that an FFL dealer was required, the burden is on the seller to take it back and reship. But if he won't contact you, that is a difficult situation since your local FFL has nobody to send to. I would hate to have the BATF involved in that scenario. It will leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth after all is said and done.

 

[mbogo]

draven12,

I did not know you had tried to meet your dealer's extra-legal requirement that that gun be shipped to him by an FFL dealer (this is NOT required by Federal law, NYS law, or BATFE regulation.

See if he'll forward it to an FFL dealer who does not have that requirement and consummate the sale.

mbogo

 

[xr1200]

Who shipped it the dealer or the seller ?, the shipper is responsible for following the law. If the seller did not follow the federal regulations to the letter, he may be in violation of federal law

 

[skipjack]

It may be legal for a dealer to accept shipments from
an unlicensed individual, but it is not compulsory.

Many dealers do not accept transfers from anyone except
other ffls...period. It is their right, and their decision. They
don't want to risk their license and livelihood.

Having said that, my shop does accept transfers from individuals
as long as we get a photocopy of the d/l. That is a business
decision that I have made, but I do not presume to tell others
what to do.

If this seller ignored the request to have the firearm shipped
via ffl, your dealer has a problem. They should have refused
the package, or sent it back immediately.

You may want to contact the shipper and investigate if it
was shipped legally. Also, ATF and the state police in both states.

Personally, I would want no part in this gun. If your seller
is that unreliable, what else did he misrepresent?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Who shipped it the dealer or the seller ?, the shipper is responsible for following the law. If the seller did not follow the federal regulations to the letter, he may be in violation of federal law

The shipper did follow the law. He sent it to an FFL. That's all that's required by Federal law. The BATFE won't give a rat's butt about it, because there is nothing to charge the Florida seller with!

 

[orionengnr]

Before we throw the receiving FFL under the bus...you are aware of Bloomberg's ongoing effort to demonize FFLs and involve the BATFE at every possible opportunity...right?

If your FFL is a bit skittish...there is a good reason for it. Your Governor is on the same wavelength, as are most of your Congressmen/Senators. Think Schumer, McCarthy, etc.

Now put yourself in your FFL's position. He is trying to maintain his license and his livelihood. Your .gov is doing it's best to put him out of business.

Do what you can to help him stay in business by complying with the idiotic extracurricular requirements your state has enacted.

And then vote to get those losers unemployed. ASAP.

 

[Cosmoline]

Where under federal law is the seller required to send a copy of his driver license with the firearm?

 

[docnyt]

That's a good question I never thought to look up. From what my dealer tells me they have to log the previous owner for a transfer and the most convenient way I guess is the Driver License.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I live in NY and recently bought a carbine off a gun auction site from a guy in Florida. When the gun got to my FFL dealer they tell me that it didn't come with the copy of an FFL dealer's license. They also tell me that it is illegal for a non-FFL to ship them a firearm

Absolutely UN-TRUE. Some FFL's will not accept a shipment from a private individual, but there is no legal requirement for ALL shipments to them to come from another FFL.

I need to get a hold of the seller and either have him send a copy of an FFL license or they would have to send it back to his FFL dealer to do it all over again. It doesn't look like he sent it through an FFL dealer though. I've been calling and emailing the seller for a couple of weeks and nothing. My carbine is now sitting in limbo at my FFL dealer. Is there anything I can do?

Sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place ... and so is the FFL (but mainly of his own doing). As the individual didn't use an FFL, there is no FFL to ship back to. Your FFL can not ship to an individual. If your FFL has the gun on his bound book (and if he has had the gun in his possession for more than 48 hours, he -should- have it there), then the only way he can get it off is to ship it to another FFL, release it to you with a 4473, report it stolen (just sayin), report it destroyed (with lots of documentation), or release it to his personal collection (just sayin).

The guy in Fla has done his bit. He shipped the gun to the FFL of YOUR choice.

Lesson to be learned ... if you do not have an FFL that you -regularly deal with-, straighten out this shipping paperwork stuff on the front end. It can be pretty much impossible to resolve on the back end.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Before we throw the receiving FFL under the bus...you are aware of Bloomberg's ongoing effort to demonize FFLs and involve the BATFE at every possible opportunity...right?

Bloomberg is the MAYOR of New York City ... not the King of New York. Interstate commerce isn't in his preview in either case, Federal laws supersede.

 

[NavyLCDR]

And Bloomberg should only have problems with what leaves FFL's, not without what comes into FFLs.

 

[heyjoe]

the original poster lives on long island not in new york city. Bloomberg has nothing to do with it.

draven did the seller enclose a copy of his driver's license with the gun?

 

[mp510]

It is legal in NY to have an individual ship a handgun directly to an FFL in order to do a transfer to you. I have had it done a number of times on handguns i have bought from other states. They did need a copy of their drivers license. If you can do it for handguns you can definitely do it for rifles. Unless you are doing this in NYC itself it sounds like BS on the part of your ffl.

With pistols, t's not a Penal Law but a regulatory/ administrative regulation issue imposed by NYSP as a condition of being a licensed firearms dealer.

 

[draven12]

the original poster lives on long island not in new york city. Bloomberg has nothing to do with it.

draven did the seller enclose a copy of his driver's license with the gun?

the seller just sent the gun with the manual, nothing else.

 

[NavyLCDR]

the original poster lives on long island not in new york city. Bloomberg has nothing to do with it.

Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/nyregion/09guns.html

SMYRNA, Ga., Dec. 5 — In Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s campaign to remove illegal guns from New York City’s streets, he sued 27 out-of-state gun dealerships last year over what he said were illegal sales. Most agreed to settle, while others chose to take their chances in court.