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Debating an Anti-Gunner, Part III

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Trent, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Hey, if I'd had a gun when my neighbor's dog jumped the fence and bit my dog, my dog would have gotten a few less teeth marks. I'll stop the attack on me and my own whether the perpetrator or victim is human or not. That said, I wouldn't have swept my neighbor.

    That said, just because we talk about being responsible when carrying doesn't mean all folks who carry are responsible, or even that when heated we will act responsibly. Although people who do carrry, even without training, are still probably going to weigh potentially needing the gun if they get into a fistfight, and may get into less altercations. However, if someone wants to cause harm to another human being, they can do so with or without a firearm.
     
  2. JBeechel

    JBeechel Member

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    Glad I could help Trent!

    It's the least I could do after you went through all this with a gun control nut, lol. :banghead:
     
  3. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Gotta be careful about that. Dogs and cats are protected.

    You can put down a coyote, wolf, etc at whim.

    But shoot a dog that isn't attacking a human and you run the risk of getting felony charges brought against you for animal cruelty.

    (Humans defending themselves or others are fine; my wife's sister killed a rottweiler with a knife a couple years ago when it jumped through the screen in to her HOUSE and attacked her - went after her dog first, then went after her. She was a big time animal lover and it tore her up pretty bad to have to do that.)
     
  4. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Holy crap I'm busy with debates today.
     
  5. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Since every gun owner will certainly be drug in to a conversation over this in the coming weeks I offer this tidbit.

    The most profound comment I've made so far today was in response to a person screaming for an assault weapons ban in the wake of this shooting:

    I said;

    My recommendation is to keep any dialog you engage in VERY short and simple, folks. Emotions are high.

    Edited: shooter identified as 24 yr. old.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  6. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    Of course you could also mention the horrible school attack that took place in China today where the attacker used a knife. Taking away guns does not eliminate tragic events or the nut cases that cause them.
     
  7. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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  8. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Another comment I just made;

     
  9. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Whoops;

    Just realized this thread should have been called:

    "Debating an Anti-Gunner, Part IV"

    There's already a thread titled part III of my saga.
     
  10. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Response

     
  11. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Response
     
  12. zorro45

    zorro45 Member

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    Dear Trent,
    Thanks for all your hard work putting this together, with your permission I am going to laminate it and carry it with me as I go into deep liberal country for a Christmas Eve celebration at my sister's house, perhaps my son and I will quiz each other on the way there to commit these figures to memory.
     
  13. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Someone else chimed in while I was posting my response.

    My response

     
  14. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    I generally will go with this, but with care taken that, While a gun is just a tool, it is a HIGHLY efficient tool for killing people. Knifing a person is UP close and personal, takes a fair bit of energy. Be prepared to admit that the possibility of carnage is higher with a gun. on a scale of fists, knife, sword, ......... single action pistol, bolt action rifle, DA pistol, semi pistol, and then semi rifle.. I was going to put fully auto rifle last, but actually thinking about it.. in untrained hands a fully auto would run out of bullets way too fast. Lots of misses.
     
  15. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Feel free to use anything I write. You don't need to give credit or anything; cut & paste away. Everything I've written in the gun debate threads is public domain.
     
  16. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    This one got a lot of "Likes" by people watching the discussion, was an afterthought to my previous comment.

     
  17. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    This guy is irritating me.

    Response;

    Sigh.. my patience is wearing thin and it's showing.
     
  18. zorro45

    zorro45 Member

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    To complete my laminated sheet I would like the reference on % chance of LEO being arrested in a given year vs. CHL holder being arrested in a given year,
    and,
    the figures on mean#victims killed by active shooter, whether stopped by LEO or CL holder, if anyone has them handy. hank you.
     
  19. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    A rephrasing.


     
  20. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I've seen some anti-gun sentiments in the show Flashpoint, but they make a very good case for why knives are just as dangerous as guns: more prevalent (you can find them in ANY kitchen and they're NEVER locked up), cheaper, don't require a background check, unlimited ammo, quieter...

    I know this is from a TV show, but all of the above are true.

    ETA: Trent, might want to include times for revolvers with speed loaders as well, because that's obviously the next step down.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    I have to modify future arguments.

    The individual who they identified today was 24 years old. Not a prohibited person. (EDIT: And, the guy could still legally possess a handgun even if he was 20; as many people pointed out on PM)

    Still, the argument against gun free zones applies, tragically.

    Anyway wanted to clear that up for anyone following this thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  22. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    And.. he quit.

    That ends that mini debate.

    That guy was a hard core anti-gunner. Wanted a complete re-write of gun control laws in the US to be more like the UK model.
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    The "illegal gun" issue is apparently back on the table today.

    Media announced a Bushmaster AR-15 was used.

    Those have been illegal in that state since 1994; Bushmaster rifles are named items in the CT assault weapons ban. (http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm)

    Another dent in the gun control argument. That's TWO gun laws which didn't matter one bit today; one of which was a ban on the type of firearm used.
     
  24. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Are you sure it wasn't a compliant version?
     
  25. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    No idea. Media has been historically inaccurate in reporting, so who knows.

    I'm not arguing the point with people until facts are known. There's enough on the table about gun free zones and lack of armed security to drive the point home.
     
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