Decided to bite the coated lead bullet

[anothernewb]

huh. I run that same load under the 158 SWC's in my model 19. shoots like a house afire.

 

[Reloadron]

I have them loaded over a pinch of Bullseye and 700-X. Hopefully I can get a feel of them over the weekend.

I have 50 loaded over 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Actually more like 49 as one became sacrificial setting up the die. I have not loaded handgun in awhile so dropping 3.0 grains of powder just seems weird. Pretty sure I have some Unique around here somewhere so I will likely load the remaining 50 cases I have prepped with Unique. Over the next few days I'll get to the indoor range.

Ron

 

[vaalpens]

7.5 gr of BE-86 with the 140gr Zingers.

ColtPythonElite, thanks for sharing. I have been looking at BE-86, especially planning for getting to load some 158gr LSWC HP bullets. I use BE-86 in other SD rounds.

 

[vaalpens]

I have 50 loaded over 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Actually more like 49 as one became sacrificial setting up the die. I have not loaded handgun in awhile so dropping 3.0 grains of powder just seems weird. Pretty sure I have some Unique around here somewhere so I will likely load the remaining 50 cases I have prepped with Unique. Over the next few days I'll get to the indoor range.

Ron

Reloadron, the 3.0gr does not take up a lot of space and it is also something I had to get used to. Unique is also supposed to work well, so I will definitely give it a try.

 

[Reloadron]

Reloadron, the 3.0gr does not take up a lot of space and it is also something I had to get used to. Unique is also supposed to work well, so I will definitely give it a try.

Tell me about it.
Sitting here and put 3.0 grains of Bullseye in the case. Looking down in the case my 3.0 grains is looking rather lonely. Then I am holding a wadcutter beside the case at about seat depth for comparison and thinking OK, looks better.



Anyway, 3.0 grains of Bullseye is literally like a drop in a bucket. Never thought a 38 Special case could look like a cavern.

Ron

 

[vaalpens]

Tell me about it.
Sitting here and put 3.0 grains of Bullseye in the case. Looking down in the case my 3.0 grains is looking rather lonely. Then I am holding a wadcutter beside the case at about seat depth for comparison and thinking OK, looks better.

Anyway, 3.0 grains of Bullseye is literally like a drop in a bucket. Never thought a 38 Special case could look like a cavern.

Ron

Reloadron, thanks for sharing the picture. Looks like we load them to about the same COL.

I'm not sure if everybody realized it, but there is definitely a top and bottom to these DEWC. My eyes are not that good, so I have to carefully inspect them before seating.

 

[zb338]

I have a K-38 S&W with a pretty worn throat. If I shoot double ended
wadcutters with 2.7 grains of bullseye. It will barely stay on the paper.
When I use swaged hollow base wadcutters I get 5 shots into one ragged
hole at 25 yards. There are guys in my club that seem to get the same
results when shooting wadcutters in .357 caliber pistols. Hollow base
wadcutters are the best for accuracy.
Zeke

 

[Reloadron]

Reloadron, thanks for sharing the picture. Looks like we load them to about the same COL.

I'm not sure if everybody realized it, but there is definitely a top and bottom to these DEWC. My eyes are not that good, so I have to carefully inspect them before seating.

The top and bottom grooves are equidistant but there is a top and bottom as you say. Load them pretty end out. There is also a distinct color difference between the .357" and .358" diameter bullets as well as they have different groove spacing between the top and bottom grooves. I am also at the point of more light is good. My reloading area is a nightmare between two rooms so I was also looking for better light. Now I can't find more handgun powder. Bullseye I have plenty but I can't find the Unique and the Win 231 is likely 1/4 Lb and 25 years old, I am going to pitch it. I must have 60 Lbs of rifle powder! Hopefully by summer's end I will have the new gun room done and some organization. The local Gander Mountain has powder, maybe tomorrow I'll take a run over there and see what they have for handgun.

Most of what I loaded will be shot in a new to me 2" S&W Model 10-5. The remainder will go through one or more of my .357 revolvers with 4" to 6" barrels.

Ron

 

[vaalpens]

I have a K-38 S&W with a pretty worn throat. If I shoot double ended
wadcutters with 2.7 grains of bullseye. It will barely stay on the paper.
When I use swaged hollow base wadcutters I get 5 shots into one ragged
hole at 25 yards. There are guys in my club that seem to get the same
results when shooting wadcutters in .357 caliber pistols. Hollow base
wadcutters are the best for accuracy.
Zeke

zb338, thanks for the information. I wonder if maybe the DEWC's need a bit more pressure to obturate properly. I have seen a few posts where 3.0gr Bullseye was mentioned as an accurate load for the DEWC's.

 

[vaalpens]

The top and bottom grooves are equidistant but there is a top and bottom as you say. Load them pretty end out. There is also a distinct color difference between the .357" and .358" diameter bullets as well as they have different groove spacing between the top and bottom grooves. I am also at the point of more light is good. My reloading area is a nightmare between two rooms so I was also looking for better light. Now I can't find more handgun powder. Bullseye I have plenty but I can't find the Unique and the Win 231 is likely 1/4 Lb and 25 years old, I am going to pitch it. I must have 60 Lbs of rifle powder! Hopefully by summer's end I will have the new gun room done and some organization. The local Gander Mountain has powder, maybe tomorrow I'll take a run over there and see what they have for handgun.

Most of what I loaded will be shot in a new to me 2" S&W Model 10-5. The remainder will go through one or more of my .357 revolvers with 4" to 6" barrels.

Ron

Reloadron, thanks again for the input.

I measure the top and bottom grooves and it seemed to me the bottom groove is about .01" further away from the bottom, the the top groove is from the top. I think the bottom also has a definite bevel.

Looks like you have a nice stable of revolvers. Maybe you need to add a 3" also.

 

[Reloadron]

Reloadron, thanks again for the input.

I measure the top and bottom grooves and it seemed to me the bottom groove is about .01" further away from the bottom, the the top groove is from the top. I think the bottom also has a definite bevel.

Looks like you have a nice stable of revolvers. Maybe you need to add a 3" also.

Hopefully this week I'll get to the local indoor range and see how these things shoot in a few revolvers. That's my plan anyway.

Ron

 

[Jim Watson]

Wow, powder charges to the hundredth of a grain, bullet diameters to half a tenth.
I need some new measuring equipment.

 

[billybob44]

Tell me about it.
Sitting here and put 3.0 grains of Bullseye in the case. Looking down in the case my 3.0 grains is looking rather lonely. Then I am holding a wadcutter beside the case at about seat depth for comparison and thinking OK, looks better.



Anyway, 3.0 grains of Bullseye is literally like a drop in a bucket. Never thought a 38 Special case could look like a cavern.

Ron

Ron, these loads interest me..Does MBC suggest that you seat to the crimp groove, and then roll crimp? (As you have done)
Most wadcutters are seated flush, or just above flush, with a good taper crimp.

Just food for thought..Bill.

 

[billybob44]

I have a K-38 S&W with a pretty worn throat. If I shoot double ended
wadcutters with 2.7 grains of bullseye. It will barely stay on the paper.
When I use swaged hollow base wadcutters I get 5 shots into one ragged
hole at 25 yards. There are guys in my club that seem to get the same
results when shooting wadcutters in .357 caliber pistols. Hollow base
wadcutters are the best for accuracy.
Zeke

This is true to a point..2.7 to 2.8gr. of BullsEye is GREAT for HOLLOW Base Wad Cutters.

If you go to a DOUBLE Ended Wad Cutter (Solid Base) you need to move up to 3.2-3.5gr. for the gas seal.
I think?? that you find that your K-38 will shoot the DEWC a LOT better with the 3.5gr. charge..Bill.

 

[Reloadron]

Ron, these loads interest me..Does MBC suggest that you seat to the crimp groove, and then roll crimp? (As you have done)
Most wadcutters are seated flush, or just above flush, with a good taper crimp.

Just food for thought..Bill.

This was not a MBC load or method. This was pretty much a "me" thing and until these actually run down a barrel I am not suggesting this to anyone.

I have not loaded wadcutters in a few decades and wanted to try something new to me I sort of remembered from years ago. Yes, I ran a roll crimp into a groove on the bullet. Before I try these in any light frames I will run some through a Model 27 I have or my Model 586. The 3.0 grains of Bullseye was based on the start load for a 148gn HBWC (Speer #12). I figure I should be able to bump the charge up but also felt 3.0 grains was a safe starting load and also enough load. I am not advocating anyone try it with these bullets and as soon as I run some I'll post back what happens.

Ron

 

[Comrade Mike]

I've never had any leading with MBC's traditional lead bullets so I never bothered with the PC. Glad to see they're working out for you!

The commentary about DBWC charge increases are correct. I put 2-3 thousand rounds down the barrel of my model 14 a year at about 3.1 grains of bullseye

 

[vaalpens]

I've never had any leading with MBC's traditional lead bullets so I never bothered with the PC. Glad to see they're working out for you!

The commentary about DBWC charge increases are correct. I put 2-3 thousand rounds down the barrel of my model 14 a year at about 3.1 grains of bullseye

Comrade Mike, thanks fore sharing your load data. I have a few loads from 2.8 up to 3.1 to test, so it seems 3.0 or 3.1 is probably where I am going to settle on.

I wasn't able to test any of my loads this weekend, so it seems next weekend will be the earliest for me to finally get to test some of those DEWC's.

 

[Comrade Mike]

3.1 is my pet load for my model 14 with MBC HBWC

 

[billybob44]

3.1 is my pet load for my model 14 with MBC HBWC

Is this correct?? Your charge listed should be for a SOLID base Wad Cutter. Hollow base loads should max out at 2.8gr. of BullsEye..
FWIW, I did not know that Missouri Bullet Company made a HOLLOW Base Wad Cutter??

Specs, and design matter in this loading hobby...Bill.

 

[anothernewb]

Wow, powder charges to the hundredth of a grain, bullet diameters to half a tenth.
I need some new measuring equipment.

that was fat fingering on my part. .1 to .2 There's no way I can measure to .01

 

[Reloadron]

Is this correct?? Your charge listed should be for a SOLID base Wad Cutter. Hollow base loads should max out at 2.8gr. of BullsEye..
FWIW, I did not know that Missouri Bullet Company made a HOLLOW Base Wad Cutter??

Specs, and design matter in this loading hobby...Bill.

As far as I know, they don't make a HBWC. Here is their wad cutter offerings. All DEWC offerings in two diameters of .357 and .358 coated or uncoated Brinell 12. Next time around I may give the Berry's HBWC a try, they make several flavors. Not really inexpensive but nice stuff.

Ron

 

[vaalpens]

I did some testing on Saturday with the coated bullets. Following are the chrono results. I will add the grouping results when I had time to scan the targets.

This was the best grouping load for this powder/bullet combination. I will propably change from 3.5gr to 3.4gr.
Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Bullseye, 3.4gr, WSP
Average: 717
ES: 16
SD: 6.4
Force: 180
PF: 113
Velocities: 712, 720, 714, 728, 715

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Bullseye, 3.5gr, CCI500
Average: 719
ES: 18
SD: 7.1
Force: 181
PF: 113
Velocities: 716, 729, 717, 711, 724

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Bullseye, 3.6gr, WSP
Average: 747
ES: 26
SD: 10.7
Force: 196
PF: 118
Velocities: 734, 756, 760, 746, 741

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Bullseye, 3.7gr, WSP
Average: 763
ES: 15
SD: 5.9
Force: 204
PF: 120
Velocities: 755, 768, 763, 770, 761

This was not the best grouping, but it looks like a shooter issue so I should probably test it against the 3.0gr load again.
Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.250"
MBC, 148gr, B12HTDEWC, Bullseye, 2.8gr, CCI500
Average: 683
ES: 23
SD: 9.4
Force: 153
PF: 101
Velocities: 689, 681, 691, 668, 688

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.250"
MBC, 148gr, B12HTDEWC, Bullseye, 2.9gr, WSP
Average: 706
ES: 16
SD: 7.2
Force: 164
PF: 104
Velocities: 702, 703, 700, 716, 713

This was the best grouping for this powder/bullet combination, but I think I need to test it again against the 2.8gr load, since I think the 2.8gr load results were impacted by the shooter.
Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.250"
MBC, 148gr, B12HTDEWC, Bullseye, 3gr, WSP
Average: 719
ES: 32
SD: 12.1
Force: 170
PF: 106
Velocities: 717, 721, 701, 727, 733

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.250"
MBC, 148gr, B12HTDEWC, Bullseye, 3.1gr, WSP
Average: 743
ES: 16
SD: 6.2
Force: 181
PF: 109
Velocities: 748, 734, 744, 743, 750

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 4.7gr, WSP
Average: 844
ES: 79
SD: 30.2
Force: 250
PF: 133
Velocities: 854, 795, 874, 839, 859

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 4.8gr, WSP
Average: 857
ES: 27
SD: 11.4
Force: 258
PF: 135
Velocities: 854, 865, 849, 874, 847

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 4.9gr, WSP
Average: 892
ES: 22
SD: 9.6
Force: 279
PF: 140
Velocities: 881, 903, 900, 893, 884

The 4.9gr and 5.0gr loads grouped very well, but it seems the 5.0gr load is the one I will probably go with. Looking at the SD/ES numbers, maybe 4.9 is the one to go with. Maybe additional testing is needed.
Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 5gr, WSP
Average: 900
ES: 49
SD: 18.6
Force: 284
PF: 142
Velocities: 890, 927, 908, 878, 897

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 5.1gr, WSP
Average: 921
ES: 49
SD: 22.4
Force: 298
PF: 145
Velocities: 897, 931, 899, 936, 946

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.475"
MBC, 158gr, B18HTSWC, Unique, 5.2gr, WSP
Average: 930
ES: 46
SD: 17.4
Force: 303
PF: 146
Velocities: 936, 924, 912, 958, 924

Ruger SP101 3"
38spl
COL: 1.250"
MBC, 148gr, B12HTDEWC, 700X, 2.5gr, CCI500
Average: 593
ES: 30
SD: 13.4
Force: 116
PF: 87
Velocities: 605, 598, 583, 575, 604

 

[Bama Drifter]

Vaalpens, thanks for a very thorough workup. I too just got the bug for coated bullets this spring. As my birthday was last week, I had wife purchase me a thousand bullets, half from MBC (.38 Match 12BHN) and half from Bayou Bullets (.357mag slightly higher hardness). The MBC package arrived first and these things load like sweet butter! Not a chance I'll be going back to plain lead again as the initial issue I had was dirt/ smoke.

Anyway, happy shooting!

 

[bluetopper]

I got some Hi-Tek coated red lipstick bullets. With a good charge of 2400 they put out the most sickening smell, like burning plastic.

 

[Reloadron]

Still have the 50 I loaded and need to get to the range. Maybe tomorrow the outdoor range as I also have some 308 waiting on the chronograph.

Ron