Decided to do something silly-just because I could 1911 in 380 acp

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The original Colt Pony was made using the Star DK slide and parts with a Colt made frame (to Star specs). Colt made some changes to the design when they came out with the Mustang and 380 Govt. models

Here is a link worth reading on the Star D and the Colt version

http://star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/d/index.shtml

The new Llama 380's are copies of the older Llama III/IIIA. I haven't gotten my hands on the Baby Rock, but from photos it does look like the same as the Llama 380.

I forgot what year it was that Llama changed the III/IIIA from lock breech to blowback. I have a IIIA and mine in blowback.
 
There are differences between the Star D model (Including the DK which had an aluminum alloy frame) but I also have never held a D model in my hands. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that the D's had the disconnector on the RH side (And related asymmetrical parts) instead of on the LH side as in the current crop of US branded clones, other than that the differences are superficial. The sear worked on by the trigger bar if not interrupted by the disconnector, and especially the safety mechanism. is all pure Star, and a brilliant design. The reason I mentioned all this is because people insist on saying they are 1911 like, and that amazes me, or tells me that they don't know what's inside the rear of the frame, because there's zero resemblance to a 1911 inside.
 
HisSoldier said:
. . . The reason I mentioned all this is because people insist on saying they are 1911 like, and that amazes me, or tells me that they don't know what's inside the rear of the frame, because there's zero resemblance to a 1911 inside.
Click to expand...

I agree that there are a lot of differences between the 380 Government Model and its derivatives, and the 1911. I cannot verify what is inside the frame beyond some images at Cylinder and Slide. For all the years I have had it, I have never detail stripped the 380 Government Model, while I have detail striped my 1911 several times. I will agree that the parts visible in the lower frame are clearly different.

As far as people saying 1911-like, I suspect it has more to do with the general shape and controls. After all, that is why I purchased my 380 Government Model. That said, while there are still significant differences, the Browning 1911-380 is much more like the 1911 than the 380 Government Model.

I think the reason that the 380 Government Model, and its derivatives, gets so much attention has to do with three things. The first is that there are a bunch of people that have them and sing their praises, myself included. The second is that the derivatives are in production by several companies and all of them are reasonably good pistols with little else like them on the market. The third is that, while it is not probably the first, the 380 Government Model, and its derivatives, began the transition of 380 pistols from blowback being the norm, to various locking breech systems being the norm.
 
Thanks for that link to Fusion Firearms.

Fusion Firearms makes a 6" barrel chambered in 380 ACP. That is the longest barreled 380 extant.

I wonder if the 380 cartridge can really move that big 6" slide back and reliably chamber rounds. I guess they could always lighten the slide up by skeletonizing it.

I'm so curious now, I want to call them.
 
Blowback .380s simply aren't a lot of fun to shoot; the PP series Walthers especially. The slide's abrupt stop against the frame is the main culprit; the same round in a G42 or one of the little Colts is a whole 'nother critter.
We have tried running .380s in a number of 9mms just for grits and shins. but the H&K squeeze cocker actually worked pretty well. With gas retardation, the system was self balancing after a fashion.
Moon
 
"the H&K squeeze cocker actually worked pretty well. With gas retardation, the system was self balancing after a fashion."

A customer who is also a friend has one of those which he loves but did say only a few rounds can be fired before it gets too hot to hold on to. Novel idea though, and I suspect that they are relying on the recoil of the whole pistol to get the slide far enough back to cycle the next round.
 
I'm Hooked on this thread now. I've been looking all over the Interwebs for a full size .380 that's available in the U.S. I believe there's still a (or many) importation restriction(s) on IMBEL. Since there are no manufacturer's that make such a gun, I'm very interested to see if the slide geometry, extraction challenges, and slide mass questions can be answered. A full size 1911 or Browning High Power in .380 with fully adjustable target sights and comfortable grip options would be wonderful. With the money I've wasted on first a Springfield Armory 911 and later with the atrocity that is the new RIA "Baby Rock", I probably could have purchased the machining bits and pieces to make a full size slide from a billet. (And a lot of hand filing)
 
HisSoldier said:
"the H&K squeeze cocker actually worked pretty well. With gas retardation, the system was self balancing after a fashion."

A customer who is also a friend has one of those which he loves but did say only a few rounds can be fired before it gets too hot to hold on to. Novel idea though, and I suspect that they are relying on the recoil of the whole pistol to get the slide far enough back to cycle the next round.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see if the gas retardation system would work better with the gas cylinder on the top, rather than the bottom, of the barrel.
 
Few rounds? I only had three magazines and could not heat my P7 up enough to bother. Recoil of the whole pistol? It is blowback, just cushioned by the gas piston.
The Laugo Alien has the gas handling above the barrel.
 
Jim Watson said:
Few rounds? I only had three magazines and could not heat my P7 up enough to bother. Recoil of the whole pistol? It is blowback, just cushioned by the gas piston.
Click to expand...
This has been my experience also…with three different P7s

You’d have to go well over 50 rounds to heat up the frame of the original P7s and closer to 100 rounds on the M8/13 to make handling them uncomfortable.

Functioned based on the whole pistol seems unlikely as the P7 is pretty heavy with it’s steel frame. Once the bullet clears the barrel and releases pressure on the piston, the gun operates as any other blowback action would
 
I find the 380acp Beretta 84F I own to be pretty comfortable to shoot. Even with the +P Underwood XTP’s I load for carry. The wider grip to accommodate the 13rd double stack mag probably helps…that, and the way the grip is shaped. Seems to fit my hand perfectly. Love my Beretta 84F.
 
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When I had my H&K P7 I noticed it getting a little warm after 50 rounds or so. Definitely was getting hotter after 100 rounds, so much so that I would shoot something else for awhile to let it cool down a bit.
 
Echoing PPs here, never found the H&K to warm excessively with a box of shells.
As regards slide motion, it actually starts while the bullet is still in the barrel (there would be no reason for it to move after the bullet, and the pressure, are gone....), and that is the reason for its fluted chamber. The empties wear carbon stripes, but aren't a problem to reload. The jolt emparted to the slide keeps it moving to finish the cycle.
It has a wonderfully low bore axis, and is very comfortable to shoot. But it is heavy, and expensive; it was an early try for an 'instantly available/always safe' pistol question that Glock answered much more cheaply.
The late war 'Volkespistole' was a similar idea, as is the current production Walther CCCP.

Now, after all that, do wonder what became of the OP?
Moon
 
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