Deer rifle question here from a new guy.

[dumbhunter]

Hi everyone. I was directed to this site by someone that I work with for some advise. He said that this was the best site to ask a question, as there are a lot of very wise people here.

I have never hunted before, nor have I ever owned a gun, but after going shooting this weekend, I now want one, well alot of them. Before shooting, it wasn't that I didn't like guns, its just that I never saw the need personally. But now I'm hooked. My friend at work offered to take me deer hunting this fall on his land in upstate NY (by lake placid). I shot his deer hunting rifle, it was a 30-06 (I still have the brass case), and maybe its because I'm new, but it felt like it kicked a bit hard for my taste. My question is: What would be a good rifle and caliber for deer that if I like hunting, can be used for other animals as well? My friend recomended a 380 0r 308 (i can't remember). And I also need a scope I think. What would be a good scope? My vision isn't the best (I wear contacts), so he recomended that I get good scope.

Thank you all for any advise that you can give me.
Johnny

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Welcome to THR!

Your friend was referring to .308 Winchester, which is very closely related to the military 7.62x51mm NATO round used in medium machineguns and sniper rifles. It is very close in power to the 30-06, but in a shorter cartridge case, allowing the use of a slightly shorter/lighter rifle receiver. If your rifle is capable of firing military-surplus ammo 7.62NATO ammo, that also allows you to buy cheap milsurp ammo FOR PRACTICE ONLY, and then use good quality ammo for hunting.

You definitely don't want a .380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), which is a completely different round used in small pocket-pistols carried for self-defense.



If you're going to get into firearms, it is strongly advised that you include a .22 caliber firearm in your collection. When you go out to the range to practice you skills, one round of 30-06 costs 50c, one round of mil-surp .308 costs 25c, one round of .22 costs 2c, you do the math! You can shoot all day for about $3 worth of ammo. You'll wear out the muscles in your trigger finger before you can finish off $6 worth of .22 ammo.

Fortunately, .22 rifles of high quality and accuracy, American made, are readily available and affordable. Used Marlin 60 semi-auto .22 rifles cost about $70 in Texas pawnshops, not sure about NJ. You can even buy a bolt-action .22 rifle with a scope if you want it to be as similar to your hunting rifle as possible. Though a semi-auto is great for just having fun and enjoying the inexpensive ammo.

-MV

 

[Deer Hunter]

You're going to hear a lot of opinions in a thread like this, so be warned.

Alright, you're set to buy a rifle to deer hunt with. That's a very, very broad range of calibers and rifles to choose from. Since you said the kick of a 30-06 was a bit much, Maybe you could look into something like a 30-30 levergun? (A marlin 336 comes to mind)

That's my advice (opinion). Start with a 30-30, I'm sure a lot of guys will say the same thing. You can mount a scope to it if you need to, as well. It doesn't kick like a 30-06, but will kill a deer just as dead.

 

[seeker_two]

Welcome aboard, dh....

Before you invest in a rifle, I'd strongly suggest you take a hunter's safety course. You'll learn a lot about hunting, firearms safety, and general woodscraft from a good course. Then you'll have a better understanding of what you'll need.

Also, I'd suggest you find a way to try different rifles before you buy one. Many gun ranges have guns to rent for shooting, and many shooters will be willing to let you try a few shots with whatever they've brought (esp. knowing you are a new shooter). If you can, try a .308 Winchester (not .380--that's a pistol caliber), a 7mm-08, .260 Winchester, and/or a .243 Winchester. You might find the recoil to your liking.

When you find the caliber and action type (bolt, lever, pump, semi-auto, single-shot) you like, your local gun store can help you make a good selection.

Good luck and welcome to the firearms community...

 

[nico]

You didn't mention your budget or what other things you want to be able to hunt, but a lot of people speak highly of the 7mm-08 as a deer round with reasonable recoil.

As for guns, just about any name brand (Remington, Ruger, Savage, etc.) bolt action will work well. Rugers come with scope rings and have built-in bases, which are usually a ~$60-70 expense with most other guns, but they have lowsy triggers which can be replaced for $65, so it kinda balances out.

Leupold and Nikon both make good quality scopes, with Nikon being a little cheaper iirc. 3-9X40 is a pretty standard magnification/bell size for a deer rifle.

A good rifle/scope set up seems to run around $700 give or take $100.

My deer rifle is a Ruger M77 All-Weather in .270 win with a 3-9X40 Leupold VX-II. The combination was about $740 and has killed 7 or 8 deer in the last 2 years (although not in my hands).

 

[22-rimfire]

My deer rifle is a Remington Model 700 BDL with 3-9x scope in 270 win caliber. It is a great rifle and quite versatile.

The general recommendation for eastern whitetails is a rifle in 270, 30-06, 308 calibers. All are excellent. All have about the same amount of recoil. The minimum caliber for effective deer hunting is 243 win. There are a lot of caliber choices between 243 and 308. All will work. I won't recommend buying anything more powerful than a 30-06/308 caliber (ie. 300 win mag, 300 WSM, 325WSM, 7mm, etc.) More power and recoil that is simply not needed for deer hunting.

A rifle (bolt action)..... You can't go wrong with the Remington Model 700. Savage makes a lesser priced but excellent rifle. Just about every rifle manufacture makes a good deer rifle. It depends on your taste and budget. The most affordable are Remington, Savage, CZ, and Winchester.

Lever Action: Some prefer lever action rifles. The best are probably the Marlins. Winchester Model 94 is the classic lever rifle in 30-30 win. Thousands of deer shot with that combination. I prefer marlin as I like to have a scope mounted on the receiver. The ejection port on the Winchester forces the scope to be mounted further up the barrel.

Semi-Autos: Not necessary. The sporting favorites are the Remington 742 and Browning BAR. Not sure if autos are legal in New York state for deer hunting.

Optics: Don't skimp on a scope, but you don't need to spend $1000 either. Look at the Nikon Monarch and Leupold lines. A 3-9x variable is probably about as flexible as you can get. In most cases, you probably will do your shooting around 4x unless it is a very long shot. Nothing wrong with a fixed 4x scope for a deer rifle used in the woods. Very fast and economical.

I would suggest that you get moving on the rifle selection and purchase. Go to a good gun shop and look at what they have available. Pick them up and handle them. If you are uncomfortable, go with your friend or just tell the sales person that you are not very familiar with rifles and want him/her to assist you on the basics.

Take the hunter ed course. You just need to do it prior to the start of hunting season and the courses are generally being offered in Aug through October time frame.

Consider a 22 rifle also. Great to learn the fundamentals and make you comfortable with rifles and shooting.

Good luck and I wish you success in your hunting endevors.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The .30-06 is unquestionably the most flexible and widely available rifle cartridge in North America, suitable for all game up to and including large bears. There are few shooters who cannot become accustomed to the recoil, especially once they find a rifle that fits them well. However, some folks never do get comfortable with it and lighter recoiling cartrigdes are more appropriate. But before you settle on a lighter round, you must first decide what type of hunting you will be doing. If you never intend to hunt animals larger than elk, the .25-06, 6.5x55mm Swede, 7mm-08 or 7x57mm Mauser will all work with good shot placement and proper bullet selection. If deer are to be your game, the .243 Win. and 6mm Rem. are fine.

The .270 Win. and .280 Rem. fire smaller diameter bullets than the .30-06, but use the same case with nearly as much powder and bullets are only slightly lighter, so there is little reduction in recoil.

.308 Win. does use a shorter case than the .30-06, and with less powder comes less recoil. However, this benefit is often countered by the fact that the .308 Win. Cartridge is generally offered in lighter rifles. Recoil is affected more by the weight and design of the rifle than by the cartridge being fired; My .50 BMG has less recoil than my 6mm Rem because the rifle weighs 36 pounds and has a very effective muzzle brake.

For a good all-purpose cartridge that is lighter recoiling than the .30-06, I would suggest the 7x57mm Mauser. It has a slight edge over the 7mm-08 and avalibility is comparable. Most manufacturers chamber at least one model in this cartridge and ammunition is commercially available from many US and foreign manufacturers.

 

[dumbhunter]

thank you all so much

Thanks for all your input. I am going to take a hunter saftey/ ed course (you have to take one in nj before you can apply for a rifle permit, i think?). My friends rifle was a Winchester Feather something. It felt light next to some of the other guns that I shot. If weight has something to do with recoil, could that be why that one felt like it kicked more? Would getting one (a 30-06) in a heavier rifle cut down on recoil? From some of the other threads that I have been reading it sounds like the 30-06 is the most versatile hunting rifle round, is this so? If it is, I think I would like to get one. Some one mentioned a "muzzle break" what is it and would that help?

thanks

 

[MatthewVanitas]

For info on NJ gunlaws, check out the NRA-ILA page of State Gun Laws:

http://www.nra-ila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx



If your friend's rifle was a Featherlight model, that would have played a significant role in the felt recoil. Also, if you are not familiar with how to properly position the rifle against your shoulder, that will also increase the recoil. Further, if you were sitting down and shooting the rifle from the bench, that will increase the recoil compared to firing the rifle while standing.

On rifle weight: too light and the recoil is heavy, and it's hard to hold the rifle steady. Too heavy, and it's a pain to carry around.

Barrel length is another issue: a long barrel allows the bullet to get more and more momentum before it exits the barrel, but too long of a barrel can get in the way.

Might want to ask your friend for some info:

--how big are the deer you're going for?
--are you carrying the rifle up and down hills all day, or sitting in a blind with the rifle on a rest?
--Are you in thick brush where you want a short, light rifle for taking shots around 100yds, or will you hunt on the edge of a big, open bean field with long fields of view?


A "muzzle brake" ("brake" like in your car, not "break" as in broken) is a device at the end of your rifle barrel which distributes some of the blast of the gun in order to decrease the recoil that you feel. However, the muzzle brake greatly increases the noise and blast that you hear/feel. Since a lot of people are more bothered by the blast and concussion of the rifle than by the actual felt recoil, a muzzle brake can be counterproductive.

Again, I vote for picking up a good .22 along with your hunting rifle. Some folks go out and shoot five rounds at the range once a year, shoot one round at a deer, and then go home until next season. Some folks do it, but you'll probably feel more comfortable (and be more ethical) if you get in some good practice with both the .22 and your main rifle before you head out.

-MV

 

[itgoesboom]

First off, welcome to THR!

The weight of the rifle most likely did have something to do with how hard the recoil felt. Other factors in that probably included the fact that you are a new shooter and how the rifle fit you.

While a .30-06 doesn't have a tremendous amount of recoil, it can be a handful for a new shooter to learn on. Getting beat up is generally not very conducive to learning to shoot accuratly.

To a new shooter, even light recoiling calibers can feel like they have a significant amount of kick. My hunting partner and I took a new shooter to the range this spring, and he started out shooting a .243, which is a pretty easy shooting rifle.

He commented throughout about how much kick the rifle had! He did try a .300 win mag, and my .30-06, and both of those had too much recoil for him.

I think often times, those of us who have been shooting for awhile take for granted how intimidating the recoil of a rifle can be on a new shooter. While it is entirely possible to get past that aspect, it is usually accomplished by starting with a lighter caliber rifle, and then moving up.

So my recommendation would be to start with something like a 7mm-08 or a 6.5x55 in a name brand rifle.

There are plenty of choices to be had, and very few bad ones out there, to be honest.

It would be a good idea to visit a store, and hold various rifles to find the style that fits you well. After you have done that, come back on here, and ask if it is a quality rifle. Most rifles are, but there are a few that are best to avoid (Remington 710 ).

A good quality scope is a must, but it doesn't have to cost a fortune. But it is better to buy good quality, so that you aren't constantly having to replace a lower quality scope.

Leupold, Nikon, Burris and some of the higher end Bushnells would be a good choice.

Good luck.

I.G.B.

 

[killzone]

Buying the first rifle

Congrats on your new hobby-soon to be an obsesion. Its just simple as that.
This might get spendy...

I'd say that what ever you are buying the first time (at mature age) should be top quality. A .22 or a .17 would be a great start but don't buy one, barrow one and get used to pulling that trigger and holding that butt up against your shoulder tight and right. Once you feel confortable with that the 30-06 should not upset you all that bad.

The right rifle

Anything between .243 and 30-06 will be humane enough to kill a buck. It's a given that taking down that animal will be up to your abilities and how well you know your rifle. Now I think that is a fact. Take your time at the range, learn about the technical facts of this sport and the rest will come easy anyway. You can do this with any rifle for sure,,,, But starting off with a honest in quality Browning A-Bolt or a Weatherby MarkV or an Ed Brown Damara could realy help you get better at this sport and continue to enjoy it.

Suggesting a high end rifle might upset people but I still do anyway. I hope you get the rifle you want and continue to enjoy shooting.

KZ

 

[Josh M.]

Well, you asked for my two cents, so here it is.

You've never hunted or shot a gun before this week.

Skip deer hunting this year.

Buy yourself a nice .22 (it's hard to pick a bad one), and spend some time at the range. You need to be able to shoot it, load it, and unload it...all safely. Have your friend help you sight it in.

Ask him if he want's to go squirrell hunting...you'll learn more your first trip out squirell hunting with your own .22 that you will in a week of deer hunting.

Then you WILL be ready for deer season '07.

Keep the change. - JM.

 

[kennyboy]

Well, the .30-06 can be used for any game in North America. If you don't like the kick of the .30-06, you won't like the kick of the .308. The .30-06 and .308 are basically the same. .30-06 has more power, while the .308 is more accurate. A .270 winchester or winchester short magnum would be my next recommendation. It has less kick, but can still humanly take bears and elk. Also, it isn't out of the question as a varmint round. Also, a 7mm-08 might suite your bill, although it may not pack as much punch as you might want for bear and elk. The brand of rifle is a matter of personal preferance. There is no one bolt action rifle that everyone seeks. As for a scope, a Leupold is your best bet. Leupolds are quality scopes. They are fairly expensive, though. A Leupold VXII 3-9X40 is what you probably want for deer. It will cost about $300 or so.

 

[Legionnaire]

Lots of good advice above, that I won't repeat. One question is whether you expect to do other than deer hunting (i.e., varmints like woodchuck/groundhog) or whether you want a dedicated deer rifle. If I were trying to fill out a three rifle battery, it would include the following:

.22 LR (long rifle) for plinking, targets, and squirrel; lots of inexpensive practice.
.223 Win for targets and varminting; again, inexpensive practice with very little recoil. Surplus ammo is available inexpensively.
.308 Win for long range targets and deer hunting.
Personally, I'd buy all three as bolt actions, but that's me.

I think evryone should have a .22. But if I could only have ONE rifle, and it had to be big enough for eastern whitetail deer but not too big for varmints, I'd opt for a good bolt action in .243 Win. The .243 is a great intermediate cartridge capable of taking most eastern game (it could take a black bear with good shot placement, but I'd want something heavier for that). My kids have been sharing a Remington Model Seven in .243 for deer and groundhogs, and it has worked very well for both.

 

[one eye joe]

While I personally think the 6.5x55 or 7mm-08 are ideal for deer hunting, I started with and still have a 30/06. It is extremely versatile. Things not mentioned so far are stock design, and hearing protection. A properly fitting and designed stock will not feel like it kicks as hard as a poor fitting stock. Same amount of recoil, just comes straight back instead of bouncing your cheek and possibly other body parts around. When you shoot at the range, wear GOOD hearing protection. You will be surprised how much less a gun kicks when you don't hear it. You won't notice the noise, or the recoil when hunting, but it will bother you when practicing, and can lead to causing a flinch (jerking the trigger). Enjoy hunting and welcome to the forum.

 

[mete]

You're probably going to see deer in the Adirondacks at less than 100 yds maybe half of that .The best scope is a 1x4 not for seeing at a distance but to find openings in the brush. DO NOT shoot throught the brush [any bullet can be deflected !!] but only through openings. Best rounds ? I would say 7mm-08, 308 .Many other s [no magnums !] 270,280,30-06 .For older rounds 30-30, 35Rem ,45-70. Deer will probably be up to 200 lbs.It's the 100 th anniversary of the 30-06, you really ought to have one of them for your collection. Good luck, let us know.

 

[dumbhunter]

everyone

thanks for the help. I'll keep you posted as to what I get.

 

[Win70]

I used to have a Savage 110 in 30-06 w/ Redfield 3-9x40 on it.An inexpensive and deadly accurate rifle but somewhat unweildy.
Sold it and bought a Winchester mod 70 post 64, 30-06 carbine, Nikon 3-9x40 scope, nice wood, cut checkering ect, swings on target nicely and it's a good shooter. I live in the northeast where depending on where you hunt on any given day you could be sitting on woodlines, powerlines or generally open areas. This is the rifle I use for those days when the weather is overcast, dark and dank and I find myself hunting these "open" areas.
I also have a Marlin 336cs in .35 Remington w/iron sights. I use this rifle for days when I hunt the woods and shots present themselves somtimes seemingly out of nowhere and you absolutely need a gun that will point fast and hit hard. The .35 Rem does this nicely. It has moderate recoil, nowhere near the 30-06 and still delivers the goods, it can be scoped or a peep sight can be added, also another option for folks w/ bad eyes like mine.
Happy Hunting !!!!!!

 

[rangerruck]

well, I personally think that the 6.5 swedish is the best all around cartridge ever made. But the 30/06 isn't far behind. the 6.5 swede is a mild mannered round, with plenty of power for most of your needs inside of 300 yds. any cartridge between 6mm and 7mm would be fine for deer hunting as well. And dont forget , a nice, light, easy carrying lever gun in 3030 with a slip on recoil pad , fills all your needs to 200 yds quite nicely. The smallest deer cartridges would proly be the 243, or the 6mm remmy , with the 6mmremmy being like a 243 on steroids.
that being said, you may wanna shoot that 30/06 some more, see if you cant get used to that cartridge, because it is a great all around round, and you can get them , and rifles made for them , any where in the world.

 

[bigcim]

7 rem mag you wont regret it especially if you to longer shots

 

[Legionnaire]

" ... a 30-06 (I still have the brass case), and maybe its because I'm new, but it felt like it kicked a bit hard for my taste."

Dumbhunter did indicate that his friend's rifle was probably an ultralight; nevertheless, if he doesn't like the recoil of a .30-06, he sure isn't going to fancy a 7mm Mag.

Guess I will repeat some of the earlier advice. Dumbhunter, first decide on the application(s) you want to use your rifle for. With that info, decide on the best cartridge for the application. Once you settle on the preferred cartridge, then look for the best launching platform. If you want to take the time to do some research, look for a copy of The Rifles, The Cartridges, and The Game by Clay Harvey. It's a very informative book, despite being somewhat dated.

Finally, don't buy a first rifle without hefting it for feel and fit. A rifle that doesn't fit will magnify the effect of felt recoil.

Do let us know what you decide.

 

[Wibb]

Welcome,

As said before, I would definitely look into local hunter education classes and maybe even a basic rifle class if you can find one. You can never go wrong. I think the most important thing in the field is safety. It will ensure a lifetime of hunting opportunities. As far as a weapon, if you didn't care for the 30-06, perhaps try your hand at a .270 or a good 30-30 (Marlin 336 as someone said earlier) With either gun you likely won't be disappointed. Maybe your friend has a variety of firearms and will let you shoot a few to find a round you prefer. Good luck, be safe, and good hunting

 

[danurve]

If a 30-06 recoil is nnot to your liking then consider a 25-06.
The .270 is milder recoil too, I didn't think the .308 was all that bad either. What ever you roll with if you plan to shoot the rifle at a range often, maybe pick up a good recoil pad for your shoulder. I use one when I sight in the shotguns (southern zone). Imo the sight in time is the bruiser. You get a nice buck or doe in range the adreneline and hebe-jebies take care of the recoil.
Good luck, stay safe & good hunting.

 

[Dr.Rob]

When I was a young man I thought 30-06 kicked pretty hard...(compared to some members here I'm still a young 'un) the wieght of the rifle and proper technique make a big difference in the feel of the recoil. I tried a friend's .270 and found it to be a much softer recoiling rifle in the same power class as the '06.

Muzzle breaks are mostly useless (I have on on my 30-06 and can't really tell the difference between it being open or closed) and should be avoided.

You can also shoot a lighter bullet in the .30-06 for slightly less recoil. It's a very versatile cartridge.

Savage makes fine rifles, but I'd avoid the 'packae' deals (like you'll find at Wlmart)... the scope is usually very cheap (though it will work) the rings and bases are usually aluminum and don't hold up over time.

I'd also look at the CZ 550 "American", it's avery well crafted rifle for teh money in a variety of popular calibers.

If you go with a lever action rifle, get a Marlin. That was my first deer rifle (in 30-30) and I carried it for years.

 

[22-rimfire]

Nothing wrong with a little extra padding while shooting from a bench with your chosen rifle. In a hunting situation, you won't even notice any recoil with the traditional whitetail calibers. Often all it takes is one shot and if you are only allowed one deer, the season is over.

I don't shoot my deer rifle much other than to check it about this time every year to make sure the scope is still on and everything still works. I shoot lesser powered rifles much more often; especially the 22LR.

My first "deer rifle" was a bolt action 243 with 4x scope. It served well for woods hunting.