Defective or damaged primers?

S

Synack42

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
37
Had my first reload squib the other day. Running .38 Special with 4.0 grains of HP-38 and Everglades 158 grain plated bullets. I've ran this load perfectly fine a few times now without any issues. This time, however, I had to switched to Federal primers -- I usually pick up Winchester primers but Cabela's was out of stock the last time.

During the session I noticed one that felt particularly weak and I made it a point to check the barrel immediately. ~25 rounds later same thing, but this time I had a squib flush with the muzzle. (Was a massive pain to remove by the way... Tried to pull it out but no go, ended up essentially hollowing it out before forcing it all the way back to the forcing cone, 4 inches...)

Now, I know everyone is going to say it was the charge... I reload on a single stage press and weigh every single charge manually. Zero distractions in the room. I visually confirm powder level for every piece of brass in the tray before moving over to seating bullets. Blowing up a gun in my hand with a double charge makes me extremely paranoid.

Decapping and pocket cleaning occurred immediately before priming so I'm not even sure how it would a flash hole obstruction...

Is it possible that I just got a bad batch of primers? I have 50 left in that box and I don't even want to use them after the ordeal. Already planning to do a post mortem on the 12 or so I have left in that box of 50...
 
Synack42 said:
Had my first reload squib the other day. Running .38 Special with 4.0 grains of HP-38 and Everglades 158 grain plated bullets. I've ran this load perfectly fine a few times now without any issues. This time, however, I had to switched to Federal primers -- I usually pick up Winchester primers but Cabela's was out of stock the last time.

During the session I noticed one that felt particularly weak and I made it a point to check the barrel immediately. ~25 rounds later same thing, but this time I had a squib flush with the muzzle. (Was a massive pain to remove by the way... Tried to pull it out but no go, ended up essentially hollowing it out before forcing it all the way back to the forcing cone, 4 inches...)

Now, I know everyone is going to say it was the charge... I reload on a single stage press and weigh every single charge manually. Zero distractions in the room. I visually confirm powder level for every piece of brass in the tray before moving over to seating bullets. Blowing up a gun in my hand with a double charge makes me extremely paranoid.

Decapping and pocket cleaning occurred immediately before priming so I'm not even sure how it would a flash hole obstruction...

Is it possible that I just got a bad batch of primers? I have 50 left in that box and I don't even want to use them after the ordeal. Already planning to do a post mortem on the 12 or so I have left in that box of 50...
Click to expand...
You're about to get lots of opinions but first thank your lucky stars you had the presence of mind to check immediately. Good for you.
 
Synack42 said:
Now, I know everyone is going to say it was the charge... I reload on a single stage press and weigh every single charge manually. Zero distractions in the room. I visually confirm powder level for every piece of brass in the tray before moving over to seating bullets. Blowing up a gun in my hand with a double charge makes me extremely paranoid.
Click to expand...
Mistakes happen no matter how careful we are. I say missing charge.
 
My first thought, powder charge.

Bullet diameters need checked. If a .355" got mixed into the lot, may produce a squib?

Any chance a "die" has made the bullet diameter smaller?
 
I've made some intentional squibs - I can't say I think a primer alone could get a bullet down a 4" barrel to the muzzle. I've needed SOME powder to even get the bullet to clear the end of the cylinder and engrave in the forcing cone.
 
On your round stuck at the end of the barrel, you should have had a noticeable amount of unburnt or partially burnt powder in the fired case, barrel, cylinder gap if you had a failure to ignite. With ball powder, you'll notice!

This would rule out low or very weak charge, leaving us with the primer, massive gas leak (you'd probably notice that unless a severely undersized bullet) or contaminated powder. Those, in addition to an oops with the powder charging (you'd have to get VERY light to have a small enough amount of H 38 to not exit the barrel).

Are you shooting in severe cold? Weird stuff happens below zero, especially with ball powders in large cases.
 
I'm going with low or missing charge. Everyone that I know, who reloads for revolvers, prefers Federal because of how well they work with lighter springs.
 
Otto said:
It’s thousand times more likely to be an operator error due to a lack of attention.
Click to expand...
Forum attitude like this is why I hesitated even asking the question. In the original post I stressed how I'm paranoid about this and make sure to have a distraction free environment.

I appreciate all of the other feedback and can accept that this must have been low charge. I will probably invest in a better scale and something like an auto disk versus dipper and trickling up.
 
I got a bad lot of Winchester primers - they took back over 1400 of them and I had over 500 38 special rounds to disassemble. I decided to just shoot them slowly and carefully. About 15% were defective and 99% of those just didn't go off. Only a very small percentage of them fired the second time around. I had two that made a low order report with a fizzzz sound. They lodged the bullet into the barrel just inside the forcing cone. The area around the forcing cone and front of the frame were covered in yellow powder granules. I was able to easily knock the bullet out of the barrel since it wasn't real tight. I don't know enough about the chemistry of smokeless powder, or primers to know why I had what looked like partially burned power all over the front of the gun, but I'm thinking the primer wasn't powerful enough to set the powder off.

Issues with Winchester SPP

I've used a lot of Winchester SPP over the last year as Bass Pro Shop and Academy both have had them in stock at a reasonable price the last 6-12 months. They've performed without issue until very recently. The last week or so, about 10 percent of them, all 38 special, haven't fired and wouldn't...
www.thehighroad.org
 
I've had squibs from bad powder and squibs from missing powder. If the primer ignites the powder, then it either burns all of it or makes a giant clump of crusty powder. You would have seen that when you opened the cylinder. If you didn't have a powder mess come out when you opened the cylinder, then you didn't put enough powder in. HP-38 isn't a powder that I've got clumps from. Usually I see clumpy powder with win 296/h110. Is it possible there was water in the case when it got charged?
 
after charging the cases do you put a flashlight on them in the loading block and visually check the charges? just another thought to throw out there was there unburned powder everywhere? if a primer was bad or contaminated and well - bad, one reason or another and all the powder did not light off, you would have found the unburned powder, no?
 
Synack42 said:
Forum attitude like this is why I hesitated even asking the question. In the original post I stressed how I'm paranoid about this and make sure to have a distraction free environment.

I appreciate all of the other feedback and can accept that this must have been low charge. I will probably invest in a better scale and something like an auto disk versus dipper and trickling up.
Click to expand...
If you thinks THATs a bad attitude, wait till I'm done or some of these other guys:) But next time ask for a friend.

I too have a distraction free environment, load by dipper & scale, with the case sitting in front of me in a tray, dump the powder in the funnel, move the funnel to the next case. Fail safe.

Still, I got a double charge in a 45acp once because I knew my process was too good to get a double charge and didn't need to worry about it. Don't know how an undercharge could happen in my set up but I'll let you know when it does.

Sorry, but many of us have been where you are and just know it can happen. The others are perfect and if you don't believe me, just ask them.
 
Random 8 said:
you should have had a noticeable amount of unburnt or partially burnt powder in the fired case, barrel, cylinder gap i
Click to expand...
^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Synack42 as an aside:
1. I use Federals almost exclusively for their soft/hot reliability.
2. In all likelihood, a low/empty powder charge as suggested above (ATD notwithstanding).
3. Don't worry about occasional Forum attitude. In the best chicken tenders there are always some pesky chicken bones. ( :cool:)
.
 
Last edited:
Could be a bad batch of primers. Could also be the recipe itself. A muzzle velocity check of a couple cylinders of the loads would show the velocities you are getting. If some are below 600 fps with heavy plate bullets that could be the problem. There is a reason Speer publishes no 38 Special loads for their 158gr plated bullets. Might be sound advice for other plated bullets as well.
 
Last edited:
Synack42 said:
I will probably invest in a better scale and something like an auto disk versus dipper and trickling up.
Click to expand...

For years I loaded dipper to scale... I still do with some rifle cartridges... there is nothing wrong with it if it works for you. What your recent adventure told you was you need to change your process a little to do a final check on your blocked and charged cases before seating the bullet, under a strong light, etc, etc.... depending on your methodology.

A better scale might not be a bad idea... what kind of scale are you using now?
 
I’d like to hear from the OP about how much powder fell out of the gun from the squib. As other’s have said, that will answer all questions.
 
Charlie98 said:
For years I loaded dipper to scale... I still do with some rifle cartridges... there is nothing wrong with it if it works for you. What your recent adventure told you was you need to change your process a little to do a final check on your blocked and charged cases before seating the bullet, under a strong light, etc, etc.... depending on your methodology.

A better scale might not be a bad idea... what kind of scale are you using now?
Click to expand...

This is the scale I'm using:
MAXUS Digital Milligram Scale

You definitely do need to let it settle down for a few seconds before moving on. There wasn't any unburnt powder, so at this point I'm assuming I moved too quickly before the scale settled down and it was actually not trickled up high enough.

I did check flash holes on the empty cases too, no blockages.
 
Synack42 said:
This is the scale I'm using:
MAXUS Digital Milligram Scale

You definitely do need to let it settle down for a few seconds before moving on. There wasn't any unburnt powder, so at this point I'm assuming I moved too quickly before the scale settled down and it was actually not trickled up high enough.

I did check flash holes on the empty cases too, no blockages.
Click to expand...
I have a cheap Lyman digital that must be handled the same way. Slow slog sometimes.
 
Synack42 said:
This is the scale I'm using:
MAXUS Digital Milligram Scale

You definitely do need to let it settle down for a few seconds before moving on. There wasn't any unburnt powder, so at this point I'm assuming I moved too quickly before the scale settled down and it was actually not trickled up high enough.

I did check flash holes on the empty cases too, no blockages.
Click to expand...

Although not as quick, technically, as an electronic scale, something tried and true like an RCBS (Ohaus) 5-0-5 scale is, IMHO, more accurate, and once you get the hang of it, just as fast. I prefer the older ones, I think the newer ones are made in China, or have been superceded by a different version. I have had others... the Lee, and the Hornady, but those are gone, and my trusty 5-0-5 remains. With dippers and a trickler, you can safely whip out a tray of charged cases lickety-split.

That's the 5-0-5 behind the loading block. I've already charged those cases... the trickle and powder have been put away (one process at a time...) but you can see the Lee dippers laying there...

That 5-0-5 is 39 years old...

jTmb1Pul.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

stonebuster
  • Locked
What caused this squib?
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
stonebuster
stonebuster
Catpop
  • Locked
Bad Primers?
Replies
16
Views
916
Catpop
Catpop
R
  • Locked
Using Turret as Progressive
Replies
13
Views
719
birddog
B
S
  • Locked
Alliant 300MP powder issues in .357
Replies
14
Views
4K
TimSr
T
K
  • Locked
kahr cw 45 and Winchester primers
Replies
3
Views
435
Clark
Clark
Back
Top