definition of "clearing a firearm"

[walksbyhimself]

I work at a local range as a range officer. Usual procedure there is to call a cease fire over the P.A., customers drop their mags/open actions, etc... and RO's check that all weapons are clear. Then everyone goes downrange. So today, we're checking the line, and a customer comes up and asks if he can "clear his SKS of the round in the chamber" (that's more or less what he said, he DID say the word "clear", and that there was a round in the chamber. I said "sure, go for it", while thinking that it was weird that he would ask for permission for something that we had told them to do over the PA. I expected him to work the bolt, show clear, and put it in the rack. Next thing I hear is "Bang", as he shoots the chambered round. So I yelled at the guy, asked him if he knew how to properly unload a firearm, etc... After the ceasefire, I went back and talked with him a bit, and it seems the incident resulted from confusion as to the definition of "clear". He seemed to take it as "shoot whatever you've got in the chamber so it's empty". I thought that "Clear" was pretty much universal for "unload and show empty W/O sending a round downrange". Thoughts?

In all fairness to the shooter, despite being after the cease-fire, the shot did go downrange, in a safe direction. So, kudos to the shooter for being safe.

 

[Sport45]

I've seen firing a gun used to "clear" it only once, and it was okay-ed by the range officer. The gun in question was a front-stuffer and firing was really the safest way to unload it. The RO announced to everyone what was going on and to keep hearing protection in place until he announced "all clear".

 

[tooltech]

Maybe the command should be "unload, and show clear".

 

[walksbyhimself]

Well, the PA announcement actually goes "Cease Fire, Cease fire, unload all firearms, remove the magazines, open all actions... etc..." So it did say that.

 

[tooltech]

In which case, the guy is an idiot, and needs to be asked to leave, for the safety and peace of mind for other shooters.

 

[Dookie]

In which case, the guy is an idiot, and needs to be asked to leave, for the safety and peace of mind for other shooters.

Or maybe instead of being an anal retentive control freak it could be explained to the person what was done wrong, as maybe that person has been told differently in the past or just has never been told.

If he did it again, then there is a problem.

It sounds like the OP handled it well and the problem was solved. Now that person can pass on the information to another new shooter who may not know the ins and outs of shooting.

 

[9mmepiphany]

In which case, the guy is an idiot, and needs to be asked to leave, for the safety and peace of mind for other shooters.

but the shooter specifically asked the R.O. if he could clear the round in the chamber

So today, we're checking the line, and a customer comes up and asks if he can "clear his SKS of the round in the chamber" (that's more or less what he said, he DID say the word "clear", and that there was a round in the chamber. I said "sure, go for it"

for many people clearing and unloading are not the same thing. if you teach long enough you'll run into many variations. i would have personally answered his request with, "go ahead and unloaded the round and leave the chamber open"

but then i just try to be careful

 

[Shadow 7D]

Nope, guy doesn't know how to clear a weapon

Clear involves removing all the ammunition from the weapon, pulling the trigger is done to decock it (and only in a safe direction, I had more than a few armorers who had a stick at the door, and 1SG's permission to use it)

I would have kicked him off the line and made him take a basic safety class. There could have been someone forward of the line when he did that.

 

[walksbyhimself]

for many people clearing and unloading are not the same thing

That's exactly what I'm asking about; what does "clearing" mean to you? What other variations have you run across? I'm just trying to get an idea of different mindsets, so I can prevent this from happening again.

Just to clarify, the announcement clearly instructs the shooters to unload all firearms and open actions, and refers to this action as "clearing", so when the young man approached me to ask if he could clear the rifle, that's what I expected him to do.

As for kicking him off the line, his gun handling was otherwise good, so I deemed it better to correct his actions rather than make him leave.

edit: Just realized I referred to him as "young man". I'm 22. lol

 

[killchain]

Edit= nevermind. off topic.

 

[oasis618]

"Clear" never means, " fire what you have left".

 

[Frank Ettin]

My understanding of "clear" is exactly the same as the OP's: unloading the gun without firing it.

 

[Shadow 7D]

My drill sergeant would have stomped the "monkey" multiple bleeps out of him, then smoked the entire platoon, and anybody caught looking (he was right next to me...)

So I know that a few million veterans have been taught a manual of arms that involves dropping the mag, locking the slide/bolt to the rear and looking into the chamber....

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just to clarify, the announcement clearly instructs the shooters to unload all firearms and open actions, and refers to this action as "clearing", so when the young man approached me to ask if he could clear the rifle, that's what I expected him to do.

that is what i would take it to mean too, but i've shot at a lot of public ranges over the years and i'm well into my 50s

when i instruct (handguns), i always say, "remove the magazine, eject the round in the chamber, lock the slide back and show clear". what i mean by clear is that the chamber should be empty of a cartridge

i have had numerous shooters have no idea what "clear" means; i've had shooters who check their chambers and then close them before they can be checked; i've had shooters pull their mag and lock back their slide, but never check to see if their chamber is empty

everyone seems to know what unload means, because it is the opposite of loading...what would clear be the opposite of...although i have had a shooter "unload" his gun by rapidly shooting all the rounds in his mag or folks who think they need to cycle the rounds through the action to unload it. don't ever tell someone to "empty" their gun or "show me an empty gun"...i'm firmly convinced there is someone teaching that to empty a gun is to shoot it empty

i think you handled it very well, he had never been taught to common shooter's meaning of clear and took/used it literally. he had likely always fired off all the rounds in his gun prior to the cease fire and that's why he asked if he shot clear the last round out of the gun...like he always had before. unknowledgeable shooters should be educated into safer shooters

 

[walksbyhimself]

That is almost verbatim what we say.
This is the full text of our announcement:
"Cease fire, Cease fire, all shooters cease fire! Unload all firearms, remove the magazines, open all actions and lock them open. Place all long guns in the rifle racks, handguns on the shooting benches with the slides locked back, cylinders open, magazines out, completely free of ammunition, and muzzle pointed downrange. Once your firearm has been cleared, step back behind the yellow line and wait for clearance to go downrange. As a reminder, once your firearm has been cleared, you may not handle it for any reason during the cease fire."

So you can see that it clearly states what should be done, and even repeats itself multiple times. The trouble is that many shooters fail to listen to the announcement, and so they rely on what they think they should do, like this guy did.

 

[9mmepiphany]

at least he asked first

 

[Manco]

Given the context of a cease-fire, it should have been obvious to everybody that "clearing" their weapons would involve ejecting chambered rounds without firing them. The only reasonable way this person could expect to have to fire the chambered round is if that were the only way he knew how to remove it from his weapon. Either that or he wasn't being rational.

 

[Blackbeard]

If there were people downrange when he "cleared" it, he should be asked never to return. Permission or no, you don't shoot when people are downrange. Period.

 

[benEzra]

Clear: Empty/remove the magazine and then work the action to eject the chambered round.

Show clear: After doing the above, lock the bolt back so everyone can see the weapon is cleared.

The word for dropping the hammer on a chambered round is "fire", not "clear"...

 

[SSN Vet]

Well everyone has jumped at the obvious, the guy didn't have a clue...

Sorry to say, but I think this is partly back on you, as you had indications of that before the shot was fired, but didn't pick up on it and intervene when you had the chance.

The guy came to you with a question, which implies that he didn't understand the instructions that were given. At that point, he's done exactly what you want him to do.

In my book, when there's a miscommunication between two people, person 'A' with much experience who is executing a position of authority and the person 'B' with little experience, who is operating under the supervision of person 'A', the responsibility comes back on the person 'A' to ensure clear communication was both given AND understood.

Your intuition was telling you that something was awry, as his question didn't make sense. But you didn't pull the string or offer to help.

Biting his head off after he discharged the round (with your permission, as far as he understood it), though understandable (you were taken by surprise and upset that this infraction occurred on your watch) was not the best way to respond (did your response teach the guy anything useful that will prevent the same mistake from happening again). Hopefully, you didn't scare him off from asking questions, when he lacks understanding. This happens a LOT, and next time he may hurt someone... maybe even you.

Here's some principles I gleaned from my years running training and drills on submarines....

1. Be very expliciit... really, really explicit.

2. When giving verbal directions, never assume that the person understood you. Have them repeat back the instruction and/or explain how they're going to execute your instructions.

3. When the person under your supervision asks a question that doesn't make sense, make the safe assumption that they didn't understand a word you said and ask questions that probe their understanding so you can provide them with a "clue".

4. Demonstrate from a position where they can clearly hear and see, and then observe them doing the actions from a positron from which you can intervene to prevent an unsafe act.

I'd encourage you to learn all you can from this experience and to become a better RSO and coach because of it.

We all blow it, but we don't all take responsibility for our contribution to the episode. People in charge have to man up and take responsibilty for what happnes on their watch.

I'm a guy that assumes everyone I deal with is clueless, untill they show me otherwise. Unfortunately, I often rub people the wrong way, as their pride gets in the way and they think I'm condescending. Whatever, they don't have to thank me for saving their life or from saving them from accidentally taking someone elses life. As long as the tragedy was avoided, I'll be happy.

 

[mcdonl]

I agree with SSN... I think we all tend to assume the level of understanding is the same which is a mistake, and well... mistakes happen so done beat yourself up or the member. You will probably both handle it differently the next time.

 

[postalnut25]

Shadow 7, You say that your Drill Sergeant would have your @$$ if you did that while clearing a weapon. Not anymore. The Army has directions posted next to the clearing barrels that include pulling the trigger as part of the process. Bugs me to high heaven. That is a good way to ingrain bad habits. I thought we all learned that the trigger should never be pulled unless our sights were on target and we were ready to fire.

 

[06]

You did state--cease firing etc but then he asked about "clearing" his chamber. I believe he meant well but just failed to listen to instructions. Bet he does not do it again with the reprimand you gave him. We all had to learn at some point in time. Some learn quickly and some have to be hollered at to get their attention. "Paw" used to say: "sometimes you have to hit a mule up side the head to get his attention". Same goes for us--kinda--lol.

 

[NoAlibi]

We had a similar problem occur at our private range. Prior to the incident a new member was given a key and several sheets of instructions. We assumed that the member would read it, understand it and comply. Obviously that didn't happen.

After the incident all new members were instructed (old members were also required to sign off after instruction) and had to initial each element that was being covered indicating that they understood it and they would comply.

15 Years have passed without incident. Obviously it is better to instruct rather than to assume.

 

[saltydog452]

The command is, or used to be 'clear and bench all weapons. Magazines out, cylinders open, slides back, guns on the table. Step back from the firing line. Make the line safe. Is the line safe right? (pause) Is the line safe left? (pause). Go fwd and score.'

Kinda like that. As it was to everyone's best interest, competitors were expected to police one another and call a halt to the procedings if something appeared to be unsafe.

That was NRA.

salty