Idiocy by range employees, at a state-run range in Arizona - Won't be going back

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Similar thing happened to me, shooting a bolt action with VLD's hard into the lands. Cease fire called right before my last shot. I backed away and the RSO's had a 8 minute discussion on how to handle the situation. :rolleyes: They decided it was safer for me to remove a stuck bullet (didnt have a cleaning rod with me) while getting powder in my action rather than run the last round down range before everyone pulled targets.
 
go to an older range and see all the holes where they shouldn't be and you get an idea of why they worry. you look and say how the heck could some moron put a round there?!! and then keep looking and see many holes in bad places. a few of those through folks and the range is gone
 
I much prefer to travel the 40 miles to the Tucson Rifle Club to shoot than to shoot at the Public Range Southeast of Tucson which is only 18 miles away. The main reason is the Public Range is Marshalled by Jackasses of the highest order. Their goal is to hassle everyone about the most ridiculous things. I just hate shooting their.
 
I can't believe anybody in Idaho would commit suicide. California maybe, or Massachusetts for sure, but not Idaho.
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The one that did it while I was there just so happened to be a child molester about to go to prison for a very long time.
 
To the shooters with actions and rounds that preclude clearing your weapon with out shooting it.....I find this vaguely, no definitely, an unsafe situation.
YMMV and if you disagree so be it but I'm not gonna change my mind.
Joe
 
Guys, there's nothing wrong with my gun. Just the bolt lockup can be a bit tight sometimes because it's a precision rifle. At most it needs a bit more lube. If it happens, it can be forced or shot out, but they apparently decided they knew my rifle better than me, and decided to violate their own safety procedures.
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I'm going to state this very clearly. I apologize in advance if it hurts your feelings.

You are wrong.

I've attended many events involving multiple competitors shooting precision rifles. I have not witnessed a single rifle, ever, with the problem you describe, and if such a problem became evident during the course of fire, the rifle would be removed from the line and, if possible, repaired on site. If it were not possible to repair the gun, it would be removed from use. Period.

Your firearm does not function in a manner that allows it to be safely handled, and this is something that needs to be brought to the attention of a gunsmith.

Your blasé attitude regarding the lack of proper functioning in your gun is, frankly, ridiculous and unsafe. You absolutely need to have that rifle looked at by a gunsmith before taking it to the range again.
 
longdayjake, I'd like to shoot there, nice!
Loernzo, used to work out there years ago, nice place, the 1000 yard line is a challenge and a half. Was great as when no shooters were out there, I'd go hit a line and shoot myself. Almost as good as working the indoor range.
Matrix wanna be Walter Mitty types? Heck of a concept. Matrix movies were mildly entertaining.

I also agree the OPs rifle should be looked at by a professional. The firearm is not designed to work like that, and should be repaired to proper functioning for safety. But it is his choice to do as he wishes with his personal property, and I wish him good luck and happy shooting!
 
Here in Albuquerque we have an indoor range I use to go to to check out a new pistol or one after a mod to sight it in or whatever. I even use to take Ar's there for a general sight in and such. Use to be a really fun and affordable place to shoot. BUT, last time I went was one time right after they changed all the staff. Found out a local gun shop owner had bought the place, and the staff he had in there were all a bunch of 20 somethings with a macho attitude who knew nothing about guns other than what the "policy" was.

I went in to check out a new Kimber Tactical Custom II I had just bought and also took a old Gold Cup, and a tricked out Defender 1991 race gun. I had the Gold Cup holstered before walking in and cleared it and boxed it up because their rules make you bring in the handguns boxed and action open. So walked in three guns in boxes actions back and a empty holster. I is a mice Leather thumb break holster that was on my belt.

The 23 yo kid behind the counter asks in a gruff voice when he spies my holster....you been here before? I say yes, probably a hundred times, he says well we have a new rule NO HOLSTERS unless you are LEO or a member.

I say I am not planning to use my holster but thanks for letting me know. He gruffly handles my guns and splaps tham back in the boxes and piles them on top of each other boxes open which I didn't like and hands me a receipt. Asks for 20 bucks! I am like, uh, 20 dollars? I am just going to be here an hour. An hour use to be $5.00 and he says we changed our proces it's 20 dollars all day. I pay and go in and am not liking the new pricing structure already so that is one.

I shoot a few volleys and am loving the new gun when I turn around and this kid is STARING thru the window into the range watching me! I shoot another and look back, he is still there staring me down! I go out after clearing the gun and having my buddy watch them and ask what he needs.

Ho says he was waiting for me to DISOBEY his ORDERS and use my holster! I got livid and called him sonny and made some form of reference to the fact that I was a shooting instructor long before he was born and probably before his parents were born and then cooled off a bit but he went off about the holster I HAVEN'T EVEN USED!

I shot long past my hour to piss him off and left for good.
 
Something sounds definitely wrong with the rifle. You should be able to eject a round with the weapon still shouldered
 
Arizona has almost as much open Federal public land as NV when I lived there - go someplace and set up a target - it really isn't that big of a deal - especially when you're complaining about having to follow safety rules - get your gun fixed, do double taps or whatever by yourself, and no one has a gripe.

As to the person mad about more than one round on a trap field - that is a major safety violation - if you don't know the rules of the game and the safety protocols that go with it - perhaps you should seek instruction before trying to play tactical pumping on a single shot field - there's no reason for either of these "all about me" attitudes where "everyone else is the jerk"
 
in some ways this thread illustrates why they need so many rules. that will unfortunately probably go flying right over the folks that need to hear it and the ones who chckle already knew how to act. life funny that way. whats that german expression? "too soon old too late smart!"?
see a few nd's and it'll make a believer outa ya. especially if one is yours and it comes close to hurting someone, or god forbid does hurt someone
 
A rotating bolt action can lock up very tightly if the tolerances are tight. Particularly if it's been shot enough that the lube has worn down or the gun is hot, the latter being the case for me because I was sighting in and adjusting the scope after every shot or two. Being a PSL, it's designed with a bit tighter tolerances than your typical AK. And, being a PSL, the ammo generates a lot more heat. As anyone who's ever fired a Mosin Nagant for any length of time knows, actions can get very hard to cycle once the gun heats up. So no, there's nothing wrong with the rifle. It's a simple matter of heat expansion coupled with tight tolerances. But, being an AK-style action, it's entirely possible to safe the rifle and forcefully pull the bolt hard enough to dislodge it, even though the bolt will not move all the way to the rear with the safety on.
 
Quit whining and come out to rio solado. And for all the people suggesting the desert, a lot of it is closed now, or more dangerous than going to Ben Avery, because of all th idiots that use the desert. If you do end up shooting in the desert, make sure you pack out what you brought in.
 
I'll be sure to check out Rio Salado. Ben Avery just isn't fun anymore, thanks to the range employees developing a severe case of head-in-ass disease. People shoot to have fun, and you can have fun while still being safe. When unnecessary rules decrease both fun and safety, it's time to look for some place else. That's ultimately the point of this thread.
 
A rotating bolt action can lock up very tightly if the tolerances are tight.
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No.
Your firearm does not function in a manner that allows it to be safely handled
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I back up Justin 100% on this.

There are a variety of circumstances that dictate unloading and making safe a rifle immediately.

. Just the bolt lockup can be a bit tight sometimes because it's a precision rifle.
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I have a bunch of precision rifles, both bolt and semi, and they will also eject loaded rounds with no drama. The logic that a precision rifle needs potentially unsafe bolt lockup is 100% faulty.

As a side note, the VLD circumstances JRSpicer426 recounted are why I never, and why I never recommend, loading into the lands.

-z
 
I've opened this thread several times, shook my head at the various replies and moved on because I simply don't get it. I think Gen. Geoff got it right in post #2. WHY? Why would anyone living in most areas go to a public range at all? Those of you living the east or southern California are exempted for obvious reasons - but, Arizona?

Even at the best ranges, you're still handicapped by the noise of other shooters and the various rules imposed - stop, go, stop, go, stop, stop, stop... Perhaps you're a match shooter of some kind and need to shoot at a range.
Most of us just want to shoot our guns. So find some public land, shoot your guns when you want at any distance you choose with any drills you choose, then police up your brass, targets, etc, and go home.
 
Mosin-Nagants and PSL's will sometimes get SPENT BRASS stuck in the chamber. Often it's the green type, but a good thwack is enough to clear it. And it's spent brass. So WCS the line has to wait while you smack the rifle bolt handle. If *LIVE* rounds are getting stuck fast before you fire them, that's a problem with your PSL and it needs to be fixed before you use it again. Has the chamber been scoured of cosmoline? Have you checked for burrs?
 
It's another range on game and fish land, but the RO's are a lot better I find. They check the guns on racks behind the line too. Next time I suggest just pulling the bolt back and not asking them. The range was still hot and you could have cleared it.
 
Yup, some RO's are a bit flaky, but rules are there for a reason...as far as cased rifles, tough to discharge a rifle if you can't get to the trigger.

Anyway, your PSL has a prob, get it fixed. If you can't get the action open with a strong pull, something is wrong...get the headspace, burrs, ammo, etc checked/polished whatever.
 
Sure glad I spent the money to join a private club with outstanding range facilities, all self-policed, no RSO's or employees. They've got a bunch of ranges, all separate. You can usually have one all to yourself all day long if you want, or shoot with other folks. www.blgc.org

Now, if I could just get out there a little more often.....
 
Doesn't Arizona have huge areas of publicly owned desert? I'd be more than happy to shoot out in the middle of nowhere.
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While I love shooting out in the desert, it takes me about 2x the time to get to a safe, legal piece of public land than it does to get to a range (the aforementioned Rio Salado range). Also, in many summer months, large amounts of desert National Forest land ban target shooting due to wildfire dangers.
 
Interesting post. I'm a long time range user. I generally know the rules and do my best to follow them. I have seen people like the OP before. They are personally insulted because they have failed to read and follow the rules. A few points stand out. He failed to finish shooting before a cease fire was called. He was unable to clear his rifle. He knew his rifle was hard to clear but allowed himself to get into a situation where he could not safely clear his rifle. Then when shooting American Trap he attempted to shoot from a loaded magazine.
This is a very common situation where a long time shooter fails to follow new (to him) or strict range rules and then feels like he is being unjustly persecuted by the range officials. About the only thing I can suggest is that the shooter should get a copy of the range rules and give them a careful review. Then if he finds the rules too strict or too challenging then to find another place to shoot. Rules change, usually due to past problems or new insurance requirements. It's just a fact of life today.

Thanx, Russ
 
Lived in AZ my whole life, shot at many a wildcat range, decided it's easier to go to a real one, as many wildcat ranges disappear under construction...or you need 4WD. :)
 
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