definition of "clearing a firearm"

[Sgt_R]

1) Safety
2) Magazine
3) Chamber
4) Safety

Then you lay it down on the bench with the action locked open.

R

 

[TH3180]

To me clearing the gun is dropping the mag out and the last round out of the chamber without pulling the trigger.
I find it intresting that there are so many posts saying the guy should have been kicked out of the range. I am a new shooter. I'm 30 years old and I shot a gun for the first time on March 1st this year. I still am a little uneasy when I go to the range. All the right things to do aren't second hand to me yet. Like it would be to shooters that have been doing it as long as I have been alive.
If the guy was safe otherwise why would you kick him out. Why not try to help the guy. People always complain there aren't enough young people shooting these days you wonder why. It really isn't that fun to get the comments about it not as easy as your video games or your only shooting a .22, what you couldn't fugure out how to use a real gun. With that said if the guy was unsafe all together then heck yeah give him the boot but why jump to that right away.

 

[Sport45]

"Cease fire, Cease fire, all shooters cease fire! Unload all firearms, remove the magazines, open all actions and lock them open. Place all long guns in the rifle racks, handguns on the shooting benches with the slides locked back, cylinders open, magazines out, completely free of ammunition, and muzzle pointed downrange. Once your firearm has been cleared, step back behind the yellow line and wait for clearance to go downrange. As a reminder, once your firearm has been cleared, you may not handle it for any reason during the cease fire."

I think the shooter was dead wrong.

That said, and playing devils advocate, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he's heard "unloading" and "shooting" as synonymous terms. Such as, "I unloaded my xxx into yyy as fast as I could". That may be why he asked you about "unloading" after a "cease fire". He may have been confused about the directions.

 

[jcwit]

You do not use open action and empty chamber indicators?

If not, you should.

 

[TH3180]

You do not use open action and empty chamber indicators?

If not, you should.

I should have been more clear. When the gun is empty the slide should be left open. I don't use chamber indicators. If I have any question at all if the gun is loaded or unloaded I clear the gun. When it comes to a loaded gun I'm not going to trust a part that could fail. I am only going to trust my own eyes. Plus I never point a gun at anything I don't plan to destroy.

 

[oldbear]

“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”

To most of us clear means to manually remove all the ammo from our weapons by ejecting said ammunition, now how you safely do that is a matter of interpretation. So to avoid further unpleasantness, perhaps a sign of some sort clearly explaining the preferred method of clearing a weapon may be in order.

 

[walksbyhimself]

@ SSNVET

Thanks for your comments! That kind of discussion is one of the things I was hoping to get out of this thread!

Sorry to say, but I think this is partly back on you, as you had indications of that before the shot was fired, but didn't pick up on it and intervene when you had the chance.The guy came to you with a question, which implies that he didn't understand the instructions that were given. At that point, he's done exactly what you want him to do.

I agree with you, and the oddity of his question should have alerted me that something was amiss. But we get weird questions frequently, so it wasn't that unusual of an occurrence. In the future, I will get more explicit info from the customer as to exactly what he wants to do.

Biting his head off after he discharged the round (with your permission, as far as he understood it), though understandable (you were taken by surprise and upset that this infraction occurred on your watch) was not the best way to respond (did your response teach the guy anything useful that will prevent the same mistake from happening again). Hopefully, you didn't scare him off from asking questions, when he lacks understanding. This happens a LOT, and next time he may hurt someone... maybe even you.

Perhaps I should explain more about my reaction. I initially chewed him out for sending a round downrange when he shouldn't have, and then spent some time NOT yelling at him wherein I explained explicitly what was wrong, why it was wrong, and what to do in the future. He acknowledged all that I said, explained himself, and we parted on good terms. I finished by telling him to ask us if he had any more questions. I don't think he was scared off.

I'd encourage you to learn all you can from this experience and to become a better RSO and coach because of it.

That's why I'm here!

Again, thanks for sharing your experience, and thanks for serving our country.

 

[NotSoFast]

"Clear", to me, means to remove the magazine and jack rack the slide until no more cartridges remain in the gun. If it is a revolver, it means to break open the cylinder and drop out all cases and cartridges in the cylinder.

I would have packed him and his guns up and walked him off the range. Then at his car I would have defined what clearing means so that he knows it for next time, then permanently banned him from the premises, especially since it was clear by the announcement that it meant to empty the gun of all ammunition without firing it.

 

[SSN Vet]

spent some time NOT yelling at him wherein I explained explicitly what was wrong, why it was wrong, and what to do in the future. He acknowledged all that I said, explained himself, and we parted on good terms

Good for you...

After totally screwing up the leadership/authority thing for years, I finally started connecting the dots.... which mostly meant getting over my insecurities and getting upset with people when I had failed to keep them in line.

I firmly believe that "a good ass chewing" still has it's place. Specifically when someone knows better and is just being lazy.

But for the most part, I go the mentor/coach route, as I find that most often guys either don't know or forgot (because they do some tasks so infrequently).

I love when I get to play the role of an instructor at work (usually training guys up on CNC cutting machines) and one of these days hope to get my NRA training certs. so I can teach gun related topics at the club.

 

[wishin]

Usual procedure there is to call a cease fire over the P.A., customers drop their mags/open actions, etc... and RO's check that all weapons are clear. Then everyone goes downrange. So today, we're checking the line, and a customer comes up and asks if he can "clear his SKS of the round in the chamber"

That's a classic case of a lack of communication. Y'all knew what you said, the shooter knew what he asked, but neither of you really knew what the other meant. Fortunately all ended well. And yes, clear means unloaded, no round in the chamber to all but the very few shooters that are ripe to create a recipe for disaster.

 

[Shadow 7D]

The place I shoot is right outside of military base, It has public days, and most of the time there are a just a few RO's for over 10 ranges (they are quite large)

Every member has to take a basic range safety course, but it is still open to public, and we seem to do a rather good job police ourselves.

The one that I see most often is someone shooting multiple guns, and leaving one with mag in, bolt closed, mind you it's up/down range laying untouched on the shooting table, but it's still a peeve of mine, and the sign on every range cover is pretty clear, if a weapon is laid down it is either cleared and boxed, or cleared, bolt open, up and down range.

Just another reason I like slow days.

 

[Hatterasguy]

If it was a muzzle loader than yeah he would be right to send the round down range, can't unload a front stuffer.

I suspect the owner of the SKS is a new shooter, he is half way their in regards to safety. You handled it right, don't yell at him just explain where he went wrong.

 

[W.E.G.]

So, this is not OK?

 

[627PCFan]

Some people load bullets hard into the lands for bolt actions. If you try to open it, the bullet gets pulled from the case and dumps powder in your action. I now tell the RO ahead of time so when they call a cease fire they give me the single ok to fire to clear my rifle.

 

[jonmerritt]

clearing a weapon is like clearing a jamb, you remove it from the firearm, clearing the chamber of what ever is in there, not firing it off!!!

 

[walksbyhimself]

Some people load bullets hard into the lands for bolt actions. If you try to open it, the bullet gets pulled from the case and dumps powder in your action. I now tell the RO ahead of time so when they call a cease fire they give me the single ok to fire to clear my rifle.

Hmm good to know.

 

[jcwit]

I am a NRA Certified RSO, and EVERY compition match and shoot I've worked requires Empty Champer Indicators.

BSA & 4-H firearm trining also require them. Nothing diffucult about it.

Benchrest Matches require the bolt to be removed.

 

[gym]

Clear is pretty "clear", it just means empty all ammo from the weapon. As always people will never cease to amaze you as to how they interpret stuff.

 

[jojo200517]

Well the good thing is now he knows next time and he won't screw it up. I'm going to bet he was pretty new with the weapon. I don't have a purpose made empty chamber indicator for my AK (anymore, turns out ya can't let the bolt slam foward on the plastic) so I just stick a piece of used brass in the action after the chamber is visually inspected for empty. That being said most of the time when they get around to calling for a cease fire i'm usually already unloaded and empty downrange style.

I'm not saying he didn't need a scolding and some instruction but no need to be a hard ass and kick him off the range unless he really was being stupid and did it while people were already down range. It was pretty clear to me by reading the first post that no one should have been downrange because they were still in the process of checking the chambers of the firearms on the line.

 

[Tony50ae]

I think you handled it pretty well but like SSN Vet mentioned, he had asked the question and you should've caught something is not quite right. But you and him learned and no one was hurt as he did shoot downrange. To all the ones that mentioned that he should've been banned from ever coming back, is that how we treat someone who made a mistake? Everyone had to start from the beginning and some might have made mistakes along the way.

Its not like the guy just upped and shot the gun with no regard to anyones safety. He obviously was confused to his situation and asked the RSO his question. Obviously both sides thought the other guy understood what was said but also obviously they didn't understand. It happens and I don't think the guy was being careless or reckless. Treat people how you want to be treated. Now if the guy was being a jerk and just being reckless, THEN he gets the butt chewing and banned from the range.

SSN Vet, I agree with you making sure my subordinates fully understand what it is that I want them to do. Backbrief is a very helpful thing. Now if I just think they screwed up because of laziness then the butt chewings begin.