Democratic party may not be lost, after all

[lunaslide]

It's encouraging to see some rational thought going on in the Democratic party, even so little as it is. It does give me hope for some of the people in that party. Unfortunately, I can't say that it gives me hope for the party itself. The Democratic leadership, and many of the urban, socialist leaning young people, and the AcadeMedia(tm) have formed this unholy alliance with hardcore socialist and even communist groups in this country and others. This hijacking began early in the 20th century, as Marxists began to immigrate to America and attempted to export their philosophy. Many of the causes they push for, under the thin veil of being socially beneficial, will weaken and splinter this country until, like many European countries, there is no longer a cohesive bond that draws all Americans together. Those causes are seeking to undermine many of the fundemental principles which make classical liberal democracy work. The prinicple ideas set forth in the US Constitution are being attacked, and I'm not just talking about the 2nd amendment. They are no longer fighting for the human rights and dignities that they claim to, but rather for the destruction of individualism. I encourage anyone doubts this phenomenon (or even those who don't) to read this essay: The Idealogical War Within the West

It may be cynical of me to think this way, but I'm hoping that the Democrats do not wise up on the gun issue because so many of their other issues are simply unacceptable. I hope they hold on for dear life and ride that bomb all the way down. Like an alcholic sometimes needs to hit rock bottom to realize what has gone wrong with his life before he can change it, so too must the Democratic party crash and burn before they can find their principles again and rebuild.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Democrat Party's leadership, and most of its current rank-and-file, doesn't want to reform the party because they think it is fine as it is. They are frustrated however with the rest of us for not going along with them.

Of course there are many middle-road Democrats that don't buy what the far-left in the party is selling, but frankly on the national level, and in many of the Blue States (California, N.J., N.Y, etc) their opinions don't count because those who are in charge ignore them.

It should never be forgotten that it is the leadership that makes policy, and for all practical purposes the party's leadership is far-left and Stateist in what they want for this country. The party of Jefferson and Jackson died during Franklin Roosevelt's administration in the Great Depression, and was finished off by Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton.

 

[Silver Bullet]

If the Dem politicians start endorsing the 2nd (and I don't mean "reasonable restrictions"), how would we know that once elected they would keep their promises ?

Easy. Look at their voting records during previous terms. If they want to leave the Siths they'll have to prove it with their voting records, not lip service.

Just ask John Kerry.

 

[beerslurpy]

Yeah, let Hillary sponsor some Ron Paul bills in the senate and push to get them adopted. If she becomes A+ rated by the various gun groups, how will a C- like that guy from virginia compete?

 

[RealGun]

This is difficult to discuss here, because you cannot genuinely confront the polarity between parties without discussing abortion.

 

[beerslurpy]

I'm sure the pro-lifers would love for everyone to think that.

Prohibitions dont work. Alcohol, drugs, guns, abortions are all the same.

They are unenforceable and erode civil rights, in addition to the immediate harm they cause from enforcement.

I'm against funding the abortions of other people, but I dont think we should have the right to prohibit them. Let the market decide. This is a stance that will piss off the socialists (who want free abortions for everyone) and piss off the papists (who want no abortions for anyone, at any price). I think this is a compromise everyone else can live with.

 

[Rebar]

Abortion, the favorite boogie-man of the left.

They said Reagan would make abortion illegal - eight years later it was still legal.

They said Bush Sr. would make abortion illegal - four years later it was still legal.

They said Bush Jr. would make abortion illegal - it's still legal.

It's time for the left-wing to stop this crying wolf nonsense.

I also find it ironic that they can find an "eminance of a penumbra" to make abortion a consitutional right, but refuse to see the clear meaning of the 2nd amendment.

 

[captain obvious]

Yeah, let Hillary sponsor some Ron Paul bills in the senate and push to get them adopted. If she becomes A+ rated by the various gun groups, how will a C- like that guy from virginia compete?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

The day THAT happens I will take my as issued 1915 No. 1 Mk III off of my wall, paint it black, and mall ninja it to eternity.

 

[makanut]

The Democrats, above all else, suffer from a poor strategy. Left wingers' stances on issues such as gun control and affirmative action are disastrous for their party. THERE IS NO BETTER RECRUITMENT TOOL FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY than for the media to give air time to the likes of Al Sharpton, Chuckie Schumer, and Howard Dean. Personally, I love Al Sharpton, Jessie J. and the rainbow coalition, along with Feinstein, Schumer, and other hardcore socialist gun grabbers. Let's face it, the "true believers" in the Democratic party are really calling the shots, and are prepared to take the rest of the party down with them based on a socialist agenda of civilian disarmament, quotas, and abortion on demand.

The Democrats keep making the same strategic blunder over and over again, by creating a huge wedge issue (the gun issue) where none should exist. Guns are very low on the list of things that are important to me, EXCEPT when I go to the polls. Democrats on this board can thank your stupid party strategists for this. Most people are smart enough to realize that putting additional restrictions on civilian gun ownership will not deter crime, and in certain jurisdictions, might actually make the problem worse. The people that aren't smart enough to realize this, and/or the "true believers" of the socialist gun grabbing movement, are solidly in the Democratic camp. Fortunately for the Republicans, the far left wingers are running the Democratic party. The Republicans don't have to have a good agenda, as long as they don't commit political suicide, they will keep winning elections. Please don't misunderstand me; I want the Republican party to earn my vote, but as long as the opposition is so incompetent (just plain stupid is more appropriate) they really don't have to. All they have to do is just show up. This is what American politics has come down to. A sad state of affairs, in my opinion.

 

[javafiend]

In my extensive experience with the Left, they are not really interested in hearing opposing views. Opposition is silenced, and from internet forums to college campuses those taking a stand against the leftist dogma are shunned and banned.

I, too, have been kicked off of Democratic Underground many times, but I really have to salute benErza and Slackmaster over there for calmly, persuasively, rationally articulating pro-RKBA arguments. We will never ever convince the hardcore true believer anti-2nd Amendment people such as Paladin, but we don't need to in order to win the battle.

Did you see Paladin's lame response to benErza? I've never seen him make a rational argument for gun control. Instead, he invariably falls back on the fallacies of guilt by association and red herring, e.g., "how can you possibly support gun rights when Ted Nugent and so many other right-wingers support gun rights? Surely you don't want to be on the same side of an issue as them!"

The subtext to his "argument" (I use the term loosely) is that only a barking foaming right-wing lunatic would support RKBA.

 

[jefnvk]

This is difficult to discuss here, because you cannot genuinely confront the polarity between parties without discussing abortion.

There is quite a difference between the two. One side looks at abortion and says (somewhat legitimantly) that it is a person. The other, also somewhat legitimently, says it is not a person.

The issues are probably more akin to the left's hatred of guns, and the right's hatred of drugs. Both are inanimate objects, can be used properly, and have a great deal of misuse that makes people overlook their legitiment use and say they need to be banned.

 

[bjbarron]

An interesting gun-neutral article in Reason explored what pro and anti-gun types needed to do to find a compromise position. This was discussed in a thread last month.

It might be interesting to review for those of you who missed it.

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

It'll be interesting if the current paradigm of Guns, God and Gays gets shaken up.

Gotta wonder what'll replace it?

 

[publius]

The subtext to his "argument" (I use the term loosely) is that only a barking foaming right-wing lunatic would support RKBA.

Isn't the subtext to your statement that Nugent barks and foams? I think he'd probably also like it noted for the record that he blasts fire out his....oh....wait a minute....Art's grammaw and all.

Well, anyway, Nuge would say something funny but offensive at this point...

 

[ScreamingFist]

Good luck with that DU posting. I posted exactly once, on Memorial Day, wishing their veterans and active duty the best. I was banned.....I assume because I use the same handle on FR. Guess it never occurred to the DU mods that if I went there to troll I would use a handle like "killallrepublicans" or some such.....

 

[Wiley]

CSPAN and CSPAN-2 has been broadcasting the "Take back America" circle jerk this weekend.

Based on that, the Democratic Party is not only lost but running toward the edge of a cliff and gaining speed! Kinda like political bungie jumping with the cords too long. The splat at the bottom is going to be impressive.

 

[GT]

late to the party...

sorry about that.

Straight scoop follows:

Democrats (capital D) are Socialists.
Yes, moderates can be Democrats but that makes them moderate Socialists (and "come the revolution" the moderates are the first to go).
Socialists control all aspects of life for their subjects.
People tend to be less cooperative when they are armed.
Socialists need to remove firearms from the general public in order to make them compliant
Democrats are therefore anti-firearms.
If they tell you otherwise they are either lying, ignorant or delusional or possibly all three.
If you choose not to believe that, well... see above

G

 

[Tag]

I'm not sure if these people are beyond help.

I am. My school is full of them, and they have no hope. Maybe if the lights went out for a couple years or some other monstrous disaster stuck they would come around. Otherwise they are hopeless.

 

[javafiend]

Isn't the subtext to your statement that Nugent barks and foams?

Yep. He's a draft-dodger, too, in addition to acting like a loud ugly drunk.

 

[jefnvk]

I wish Ted could be the peaceful, caring person that Jane Fonda is