Dems have lost the ANWR battle

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Woo now it's time to pillage the tundra and shoot all the penguins and caribou and polar bears and have them stuffed and mounted in Cheney's living room.

Isn't that what the DUNGers say will happen?
 
What it really means is that now we can spend 10 years drilling for low quality oil which costs more to get out of the ground than it sells for, but the ever-so-suffering oil industry will get more government handouts so all is well.
 
I remember the crying and hand wringing when the Alaskan pipeline was being suggested. Turns out it was good for the environment.

Six republicans voted against the drilling, McCain was one of them.
 
hold the phone fellas....
we're not out of the woods yet.

its still up to congress to put it in the budget. this was the biggest hurdle, but its not the only one.

and its gonna still take years for this to start having a positive impact on not just the nation, but for alaska.
approving anwr only guarantees that alaskas economy will be stable for the next 25-40 years. better hope they either find more fossil fuels somewhere, and that the PAB liberals dont try to stop the collection of it.

that, or hope that the oil companies will stop discouraging car manufacturers from producing hyrdogen fueled automobiles.
 
Peak oil's got problems, same as global warming and the hole in the ozone. I don't trust alot of science anymore, it's too politicized.
 
ny of you fella's heard of Peak Oil?
Click to expand...
Peak Oil is the latest version of "The Sky is Falling."

There is another theory out there about the origins of petroleum. We here in the west followed the biological source theory. The Russians and Ukranians for the last 50+ years developed another theory which says oil is produced in the past and continues to be produced to this day by geological process deep in the earth. The oil is force to the surface where we get access to it.

http://www.rense.com/general63/staline.htm provides a summary.

http://www.geotimes.org/june03/NN_gulf.html describes Louisiana finds.

http://www.geotimes.org/july02/NN_oil.html estimates of oil in ANWR and Alaska.

http://www.geotimes.org/nov02/feature_gas.html if oil is messy and your tastes tend toward methane.

There is no energy crisis. There is a petroleum shortage due to shortsided environmental policies.
 
Um, so Exxon, et al are going to go drill in Alaska, get some crude, refine it, and then sell the final product *only* to American distributors/gas stations? I thought crude oil was a world market?

How does this make us less dependent on "foreign" oil, again?
 
Waitone, it doesn't matter if you believe in "Hubbert's Pimple" or not. What's a fact is that the rate of consumption of petroleum is greater than the rate of new discoveries.

The growth rate of consumption means that in some 20 years we'll be needing 44% more oil than the world is using today. That's why China is locking up deals with Canada for tar sands and with Venezuela and Iran.

It only takes a small amount of either addition or subtraction from the daily supply of oil to cause large swings in the spot price of crude. A new field will aid in a price reduction; any sabotage will increase the price.

Folks better pray that the various strikes both on- and off-shore of the west coast of Africa can make up for the coming decline in Saudi production. From what I'm reading, $60/bbl oil isn't too far off--which probably means another 25 to 40 cents more per gallon of gasoline.

mons meg, the ANWR oil would be a small addition to domestic production. It's but part of a total effort to get through an interim period of changing our energy-source and energy-use methodologies. More nukes, more wind power, fewer gas hog vehicles and lots and lots of hard times and changing of lives. The next 10 to 20 years are gonna be a bitch-kitty.

Art
 
The growth rate of consumption means that in some 20 years we'll be needing 44% more oil than the world is using today. That's why China is locking up deals with Canada for tar sands and with Venezuela and Iran.
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And if all you Walmart/Costco shoppers and consumers of cheap Chinese imports keep throwing your money at them, China will need lots of oil sooner than you think.
 
My point is simple. Demand outstrips supply. There is plenty of oil. We are not running out of oil. We are running out of recoverable oil due to artificial political supply constraints placed on the marketplace. Remove those supply constraints and the price of oil will drop because the supply will increase. I will predict here and now that if the house approves drilling in ANWR we will see a decline (rate of decline ill-defined) in world oil prices. Why? Competition. What better way to eliminate competition than to make it economically unacceptable to drill.
 
Every 5-10 years since the turn of the last century (yes, early 1900s) scientists have been predicting the end of petroleum supply is within sight. Yet new supplies are constantly discovered.

In the likely event that demand eventually grows to outstrip the ability to pump it out of the ground, transportation will either become more expensive to compensate or we will switch to other forms of fuel which will be more affordable in comparison to oil. Like ethnaol, etc. I could switch my cars over to ethanol tomorrow if it was available at pumps. I would have to recalibrate the wideband on my miata and probably get larger injectors, but it would definitely be feasible.
 
Oil cheaper than water was fun while it lasted. There's no grin like the 400 horsepower grin: :D


It's a shame we're all going to end up in efficient little civics and volkswagons again. :barf:
 
So...

...the Anti People Establishment [APE] lost one. Great.

A few thoughts that I have come accross about other forms of energy:

It takes about 167 Kilowatt hours of electricity to produce enough hydrogen to run a fuel cell to produce 17 KWH of energy. Not a great attraction there. Producing hydrogen takes lots of electricity. What we need is nuke electricity or solar and wind power. I've heard that if we paved all of Massachusetts over with solar panels, we could produce enough electricity for our needs. This may be a good idea if we start the paving at night while their senators sleep. The bird lovers are a bit alarmed because windmills seem to make hamburger out of birds. [The bird men never mention the fish that go thru power generators]

Maybe we'll go back to burning whale oil.

There's some good reading on www.junkscience.com

What about artificial gasoline from coal? It seems that Hitler and the boys got a lot of gas this way in WWII. Anyone know anything about that?

rr
 
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