Denver CO: Why do so many gun stores not do private FFL transfers?

[jpruitt]

In Colorado private gun sales have to go through a FFL who will do a background check on the buyer. I've only been living here for about 6 or 7 months so this is a new thing for me. I'm trying to sell a gun but it seems like almost every gun store says they don't do private transfers on their websites. Why would they not do this? And can anyone recommend a good inexpensive place that will?

 

[JeffG]

Not enough profit, increased liability exposure.

 

[drk1]

As Mr. JeffG states, there just isn't much profit there, there is the liability issue and it also takes time away from paying customers, and there is at least one other issuee. Lots of folks see it as the first step towards registration. It works like this. I have a firearm that I want to sell to you. You want to buy it, so we agree to go to the local gun shop (LGS). The lgs has to accept it from me which means that he has to list it in what the ATF refers to as the "bound book," which is often just a series of form pages stapled together and not really "bound." That means he needs to see something with my name and address. All of that information goes on a page designated as "Acquisitions." So the LGS is now the legal owner of that firearm. In many cases the next step is that the buyer fills out a 4473 and the lgs either checks on line or makes an old fashioned phone call. The lgs is about to put the would-be buyers name in his bound book on the opposite page designated as "Dispositions," but surprise... the buyer is delayed or ineligible! Now the origianl owner has to fill out a 4473 to get his gun back so there is a paper (or computer) trail from that firearm to that person. Sound like a great idea? As of right now that information doesn't go any further, but if the little crumb snatchers running around Washington D.C. and lots of other places today have their way, it wouldn't take much to turn that data into a national database of gunowners and firearms.

The example cited above was just a routine sale. In some locations, city laws require the lgs to sit on all used firearms for 3 to 7 days while having the local police run the serial number through the fed database. Guess what happens when this check on a firearm that you've owned for several years reveals that it was stolen. You're out one firearm, the money you paid for it and you're now listed in official records as the reciepient of a stolen firearm. What happens in the locations where there is a waiting period and the guy who wanted to buy it decides that he really didn't want to buy it after the waiting period? Really not much of an upside to any of this.

 

[slumlord44]

Funny that most dealers in Illinois have no problem with it. Buy a lot of guns through Gunbroker that have to be shipped to an ffl here and no issue. Usually $20-$25. $10 at gun shows.

 

[RecoilRob]

As of right now that information doesn't go any further, but if the little crumb snatchers running around Washington D.C. and lots of other places today have their way, it wouldn't take much to turn that data into a national database of gunowners and firearms.
.

I know the BATF and LGS are supposed to destroy the documents after a period....but the Feds have been compiling an illegal registry for quite a while now. Look how many shootings happen and they trace the gun/s back to the seller...which might have been 5 or more years ago. That paper trail is forbidden by law, but it exists and who is going to get them to destroy it? They are the Government...who are WE to question them and demand that they follow the Rules like the rest of us?

 

[MachIVshooter]

It's an irritation. When I'm actually working, I'm making anywhere from $40-$100 per hour. Well, by the time I'm done dealing with phone calls, waiting on both parties, filling out the 4473 and book, waiting on CBI, it's well over an hour for a measly $20, and then it's another $15 on the CBI bill at the end of the month, which I collect up front with my total $35 transfer fee, but it's as unpleasant as the credit card processing fees that are billed monthly rather than taken off the top of each transaction.

Last I heard, compliance with the universal background checks was estimated to be somewhere around 7%. Most people just continue to buy & sell privately amongst friends and friends of friends.

 

[brewer12345]

Might be a bit of a hike depending on where you are, but try Rapid Fire Bunker in Littleton. Nice people, they do private transfers, and the store is neat to poke around in while you are there.

 

[ourway77]

Delaware charges 25-50 dollars for doing the paper work and a phone call It's pretty profitable as they have no inventory on the shelf don't have to special order none of their money is tied up and at the higher end of charges they make as much as a sale for a rifle etc.

 

[bnolsen]

Funny that most dealers in Illinois have no problem with it. Buy a lot of guns through Gunbroker that have to be shipped to an ffl here and no issue. Usually $20-$25. $10 at gun shows.

Different situation from private sale transfer. seems the dims idirectly got what they wanted...effectively killed private firearms resale.

Get out of denver, here's one clos-ish to me:

http://damagefactory.com/free-ffl-private-firearm-transfer-25-in-store-purchase/

 

[coloradokevin]

In Colorado private gun sales have to go through a FFL who will do a background check on the buyer. I've only been living here for about 6 or 7 months so this is a new thing for me. I'm trying to sell a gun but it seems like almost every gun store says they don't do private transfers on their websites. Why would they not do this? And can anyone recommend a good inexpensive place that will?

Basically, because they don't have to do it. There isn't enough money involved for most of them to care, and it's more time for them. The state made a new (stupid) law about private party sales and background checks back in 2013 (this wasn't an issue previously), and the legislature doesn't really care if you're able to sell your gun. It's a bad law that is being driven by liberal Denver politics. Colorado was once a deep red state with a little blue in the Denver-Boulder area. Now the Denver-Boulder area is populous enough to control politics for the entire state, and policies like these are the result.

They've also increased the fee for this background check by 50%, despite claiming that the cost would be kept to a minimum.

 

[MachIVshooter]

They've also increased the fee for this background check by 50%, despite claiming that the cost would be kept to a minimum.

250%, from $6 to $15, effective February of this year.

 

[coloradokevin]

250%, from $6 to $15, effective February of this year.

Oops.. I was thinking it was $10 to $15. At the rate they're going it will be $50+ before too long.

 

[Theohazard]

I know the BATF and LGS are supposed to destroy the documents after a period....but the Feds have been compiling an illegal registry for quite a while now. Look how many shootings happen and they trace the gun/s back to the seller...which might have been 5 or more years ago. That paper trail is forbidden by law, but it exists and who is going to get them to destroy it?

No, that paper trail is not prohibited by law. An actual federal gun registry is what's prohibited by law. That's specifically why the ATF has to do the tedious process of tracing guns back to the seller.

When a gun is used in a crime, the ATF can't just look the gun up in a federal registry since that's prohibited by the 1986 FOPA. No, they have to trace the gun manually. For example, they contact the manufacturer and find out what distributor the gun was sent to. Then the distributor tells them which dealer the gun was sent to. Then the dealer tells them who the firearm was transfered to. If that person never transfered that gun, then that's the owner of the firearm. But if that person transfered the gun to someone else with no paperwork (or lost the gun in a tragic canoe accident) then that's a dead end. And it's done this way in order to comply with the federal law against a gun registry.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

As has been previously stated: Get out of Denver! I live north of you in Loveland and Jensen Arms has received guns I have purchased from out of state in the past, but that was before the magazine ban and background check expansion law. Have you tried any of the pawn shops? You will need to get out of Denver proper as it is truly a lunatic asylum. If you were an illegal they would help you out but they don't care for legal law abiding gun owners.

 

[cjwils]

In addition to the comments above, I think some gun stores fear losing business to on-line sales, and they don't want to help the on-line sellers and buyers.

 

[borrowedtime69]

i @#$^#$%^hate denver & colorado! lived here 26 years and it going to hell with all the Leftist snowflakes and ******-bags moving here & the ones that are home-grown. im getting out hopefully in a year, go to a red state and live free. our ridiculous gun laws do nothing to prevent crime and are only a pain in the rear for law abiding subjects.... i mean "citizens"

 

[bikemutt]

My favorite (OK, cheapest) transfer FFL quit doing them after getting chewed out by inconsiderate customers. It's not the FFL's fault when someone gets delayed or denied. He took flack from buyers and sellers both when things with the FBI NICS didn't go as planned. The final straw was when some real piece of work threatened his wife, who works in the business, because his buyer could not pass a BG check and he had "drive all the way back there" to come get his gun.

I'm sure high volume FFLs don't mind the occasional richard cranium but for a small shop, it's more trouble than it's worth.

ps. He'll still do a transfer for me

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've done a number of transfers with Triple J Armory in Littleton.

Get on Gunbroker, and look at their list of dealers and make some calls/emails. Expect to pay around $35.

Most dealers IN Denver will not handle modern sporting rifles like AR's and such.

 

[Wisco]

In talking with local FFLs - one home based and one retail - they made it really apparent that the customer base around here is a total crapshoot for quality of human.

One customer at $25-40 per transfer is often not easy. Add in two people - one gun in from one and then out to the other - and you’re almost sure to get a problem just based on the fact that half of all men in Wisconsin are cognitively and/or socially deficient. Wisconsin doesn’t yet mandate background checks, but some people insist on them and it’s not convenient.

I’ve been doing the math on getting a home based FFL and the only thing stopping me is the quality of the customer base within 20 miles.

If I did transfers between people, I’d have to charge per person. Instead of $25 per transfer it’d have to be $20 per party to make up for the time and headache. It really is two parts - in and then out.

To the OP, in searching for a FFL, maybe offer to pay two transfer fees or something similar to compensate the FFL for their time.