Deputy's Rifle Discharges in Patrol Car

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DoubleTapDrew

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Sounds like a ND. I'm surprised they actually went to someone knowledgable and got a little lesson on how rifles don't just "go off" and the difference between an AD and ND. Good reporting.

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080207/NEWS0107/802070394/1001&nav_category=

Deputy's rifle discharges into building as he patrols U.S. 97
Deschutes officer put on ‘modified duty’; Sheriff’s Office investigating
By Cindy Powers / The Bulletin
Published: February 07. 2008 4:00AM PST
A Deschutes County sheriff’s patrol deputy of eight years has been placed on “modified duty” after his service rifle discharged as he was driving on U.S. Highway 97 and the bullet hit a building.
Ron Brown’s AR 15 rifle went off just before midnight Tuesday. The round penetrated the front of Wood Monsters, a flooring business in the 20500 block of Robal Road in north Bend.
No one was inside at the time, and no one was injured, said Kevin Taylor, owner of the business.
Sheriff Larry Blanton said he did not have many specifics about the incident.
“(The rifle) was in its holder, but he heard it rattling up there and was trying to put it back,” Blanton said.
He said department policy allows for bullets to be inside the magazine of a rifle in a patrol car, but not in the barrel “unless we are responding to an issue that would necessitate having a bullet in the barrel.”
Blanton said he did not know whether Brown was responding to a call.
Because of an ongoing internal investigation, Blanton said he was limited in what information he could give about the incident.
He did say Brown was on an overtime shift, patrolling for drunken drivers.
The rifle was mounted behind Brown’s head, Blanton said, with the barrel pointing at the driver’s side window. The rifle was mounted in a patrol car assigned to Brown, but other deputies are allowed to use it, Capt. Marc Mills said.
He said deputies are expected to routinely inspect their vehicles and equipment.
The bullet sliced through the vehicle’s roof liner and shot out the left rear window before hitting the building, Blanton said.
Brown could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
Blanton said deputies carry the rifles because they need long-range weapons in some tactical situations.
“We have to make sure that we have equal or superior equipment or tools available to us than a suspect may have,” Blanton said.
Officers train with long-range weapons at least two days each year and must be proficient at shooting them at night, Blanton said.
But John Landwer, of Front Sight Firearms Training Institute in Aptos, Calif., said it would be “impossible” for someone following safety protocols to accidentally fire an AR 15.
Landwer said the institute trains an average of 800 to 1,000 people each year on the use of firearms and that the AR 15 is one of the guns they regularly use.
“I’ve loaded an AR 15 probably 2,000 times, and I’ve never had one accidentally go off,” he said.
He said the rifle must first be loaded with a magazine and then cocked to get a bullet into the barrel. Then, Landwer said, a safety lever must be flipped before the weapon will fire.
“If the gun went off and the guy didn’t mean it to then it’s not an accident, it’s negligence,” Landwer said.
In his experience with AR 15s, Landwer added, a shooter must overcome an average of 5 to 8 pounds of trigger resistance before the weapon will fire.
Landwer said one fortunate thing about the situation is that an AR 15 shoots only one round at a time.
But, in his opinion, the position of Brown’s gun was not safe, he said, based on his company’s safety protocols.
“Never point a weapon at anything you don’t want to destroy,” he said.
Blanton said the Sheriff’s Office has not had an incident like this in his nearly 30 years at the department.
He said Brown stopped driving immediately after the weapon went off and called his supervisor, who started an internal investigation into the incident.
The investigation is expected to take a few days, and when it is completed Blanton said he will be able to provide more information about what happened.
Brown has been put on “modified duty assignment,” similar to desk duty, pending the outcome of the investigation, Blanton said.
Taylor, of Wood Monsters, said the bullet that zinged through the upper front of his business is now embedded in a side wall.
“I was surprised when the news started showing up because I didn’t think it was a big deal,” Taylor said.
 
Huh?

Landwer said one fortunate thing about the situation is that an AR 15 shoots only one round at a time.

Yeah... otherwise it would be... uhm... errr.... more than one gun? Or perhaps a shotgun?

/rl
 
Sounds like he either had a round chambered or he had the bolt locked back with a mag inserted. All you would have to do is hit one good bump in the road and :what:
 
He said department policy allows for bullets to be inside the magazine of a rifle in a patrol car, but not in the barrel “unless we are responding to an issue that would necessitate having a bullet in the barrel.”

Why would you want to put a bullet in the barrel?

I bet they change the policy to prohibit putting the magazine in the gun. Seems like a dumb idea to have a semi-loaded rifle pointed out the side of the car in the first place.

There was a series of shotguns that went off inside squad cars maybe ten or 15 years ago. I think they traced it to cops who were not obeying the rules about not putting one in the chamber inside the vehicle. I guess they were trying to get an edge. In most cases they were locked in place anyway, so the extra half a second to operate the slide, was pretty meaningless compared to getting the key and unlocking it in the first place.

Sounds like he either had a round chambered or he had the bolt locked back with a mag inserted. All you would have to do is hit one good bump in the road and
And the bolt would go forward. Unless there was some kind of gross mechanical malfunction, it ain't going to discharge unless someone pulls the trigger.
 
[preach to the choir]

I get so sick of reading about how a police officer's firearm just discharges by itself and a non-police officer's firearm is negligently handled and is a menace to society because WHAT IF A CHILD HAD BEEN THERE!!

I certainly could be wrong, but something tells me that this guy who owns the office wouldn't be so blasé if a joe sixpack's bullet went through the walls.

[/preach to the choir]
 
I am a fan of having a rifle or shotgun available to patrol officers, but it probably would be best if it is secured in the trunk unless needed.
 
Call me crazy but I never put a round in the chamber unless I'm going to fire it. I'm willing to risk the extra time to load for the added safety. I figure my personal chances of having to fire a quick shot vs. a ND are better that way.

(Not trying to cause trouble with those of you that do, only stating my reasoning.)
 
The rifle was mounted behind Brown’s head
Yikes! how loud would an AR-15 right by your head, inside a car be? His ears HAVE to silll be ringing!

And yes, this guy obviously screwed up.He either chambered a round when he wasnt supposed to or failed to check it at the start of shift to see someone else had,then hit the trigger while fiddleing with it, while driving.Not too smart either way.
 
Cruiser safe.........

Bolt closed on an EMPTY chamber, safety ON, magazine inserted.

Guess they never heard of cruiser safe. Either he chambered the round, or he did not inspect the rifle at the start of his shift.
 
in theory, a hard enough jolt could cause the firing pin to move and strike a primer... that said, if the chamber was empty, this wouldnt do anything... somewhere along the line, someone loaded the chamber...
 
Every time my unit goes to the range and every time we go over the weapons PQS (weekly) I make sure to demonstrate that it is really easy to release the bolt just by giving the butt plate a tap on the deck. Bolt forward on an empty chamber is safe.
 
Glad the officer is OK and no one else injured. I bet he needs new seat covers though.

At least the muzzle was pointed in a semi-safe direction (not at any vehicle occupants, but not good for anyone outside the vehicle). Sounds like a failure to check the condition of the firearm when starting a shift. It may be he had to roll out on an emergency at the start and didn't have time to do a thorough vehicle check, and then forgot about it later on.

Kudos for the reporter to check with a firearms training expert on the characteristics and safe handling of an AR15, and not referring to it as "an evil black rifle that wantonly kills children".

Thanks for th egood article posting!
 
Dont mean to offend, but Jeeez! Whats wrong with some of you people?

"Why have one in the chamber?" Are you serious?

So the threat of a ND is greater than being prepared and having one in the chamber? Some of you need to practice more and/or follow better safety handling skills, seriously.

When your in dire need to use your weapon, and adrenaline is rushing through your body i sincerely hope you can remember and actually rack the slide properly to load one up.

Either that or go with a revolver, that is if you can remember to keep your finger off the trigger until you need it.
 
yeah I live in the next town over, and that was big news right away. I agree that it was neglect, I never keep one in the chamber in a vehicle. I hope they punish him some how.
 
"Why have one in the chamber?" Are you serious?
If you have time to reach above/behind your head, release the weapon, and get it into firing position from inside or outside (more likely) the vehicle, you have time to rack the charging handle. Shotguns have been kept "cruiser ready" with an empty chamber and slide racked for years. If you need to deliver lead faster than that there is a gun with one in the pipe on your hip.
 
When your in dire need to use your weapon, and adrenaline is rushing through your body i sincerely hope you can remember and actually rack the slide properly to load one up.

Sidearms are DESIGNED to be carried with a round chambered.

The vast majority of rifles (AR-15 included) are not.

Pulling the charging handle all the way back and letting it slide takes less time than actually shouldering the rifle and aiming. If you have time to use a rifle at all, you have time to chamber a round.
 
Dihappy, there's actually a training protocol for the AR variants that designates how to bring a rifle into the scenario you're describing. One of those steps is to charge the weapon. It takes, maybe, 1/2 a second.

The report read that the bullet tore through the headliner and then out of a rear window. That means it was pointed upward, right?
 
Yeah... otherwise it would be... uhm... errr.... more than one gun? Or perhaps a shotgun?
I think that the speaker was trying to convey non-automatic to someone unfamiliar with guns. i.e., it was an AR-15, not an M4.
 
The report read that the bullet tore through the headliner and then out of a rear window. That means it was pointed upward, right?
I didn't see any pics but I have seen mounts now for ARs that mount it crosswise on the headliner, just above and behind the front seats. I assume that's what this was.
bsr2small.jpg
 
The vast majority of rifles (AR-15 included) are not.

Say again? I've done some pretty brutal things to M16s with a round in the chamber that didn't go off. I've spent many a month with one in the pipe. Could you explain how/why an AR15 is not designed to be carried with a round in the chamber? Then I suppose, pick the pistol of your choice and explain why it is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber?

I don't understand the logic behind your statement. But I'm absolutely willing to learn.
 
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