Dichotomy in gun friendly states..

[cbsbyte]

Here,it just depends upon your CLEO.Mine's great,some are horrible.The AWB and AG's approved list for handguns are pains but our carry laws are far better than many "gun friendly" states.There are almost always tradeoffs but least to me,it's a bigger deal that I can legally carry virtually everywhere vs not being able to have a bayonet lug.It's mostly on principal that I think being able to always protect yourself is the most important aspect of firearms ownership but,in practicality,there hasn't been a shooting in my county in over a century.Really,if MA didn't require me to have a License to Carry just to own handguns and large cap rifles,I probably wouldn't have bothered getting one.

You also need a permit to own low capacity firearms, and even pepper spray.

While Mass has very few restrictions on CCW and in much of the state it is quite easy to attain a LTC Class A. The major problem here is their is no right to self defense. If you shoot someone in self defense in Mass, even in ones own home expect to spend a lot of money to hire an attorney to defend yourself in court. Even if the shooting is determined by the police to be justified the DA in most cases will still go after the shooter. Their is also no right to defend property. You can not pull a gun on a person who is stealing your property. You can't even legally tell them to stop. All you can do is call the police and watch. Above this, the Criminal has the right to sue a person who injuried him in trying to stop their crime. In the end the criminal might get all of the homeowner possessions after a lenghty legal battle.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

VT is pretty good. Open or concealed requires no permit, most NFA stuff is legal, few places are off limits, pre-emption, decent self-defense laws. Downsides: no silencers, can't carry in schools (you can carry on school grounds, but not in the buildings or vehicles owned/used by the school such as school buses), and that school law is so vague it could be read to apply to colleges so you're taking a bit of a risk carrying in a college building, though it's only a misdemeanor the first time caught carrying in a school building...

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

If the Texan culture is gun friendly, and culture comes from people, who don't the Texan people change the laws to reflect their views?

We've made steady progress in every legislative session since I moved here in 2001.

This year we got Castle Doctrine with civil immunity and carrying in cars without a CHL, among others. The laws are gradually being changed to reflect where the people are, which is what you would expect.

Exactly. We can more readily point to the result of the friendly gun culture as a measure of its overall friendliness. Texas gun laws are very good, but I'm more free in Washington or Idaho or Virginia to wear my six-gun on my hip than I am in Texas.

Sure.

But if you are forced to use your gun in self defense, I do not believe that any state is "friendlier" than Texas.

And as I've said, that's what really counts.

 

[Winchester 73]

Agree with Antique Collector, Vermont is the best,closely followed by Alaska.
Five states that are shall issue,still do not allow Open Carry,AR,FL,OK,SC and TX.Strangely,all are are viewed as Southern,(OK on the fringe) gun friendly states.Perhaps the lingering effects of Jim Crow.
All these states need to get into gear and make OC legal.Then the individual makes the decision on CC or OC.

 

[Prince Yamato]

If the Texan culture is gun friendly, and culture comes from people, who don't the Texan people change the laws to reflect their views?

Yep. Case in point.

Case 1

Me: I just bought a new AK-47!
Dad (from upstate NY): You bought an AK-47? You don't really have one of those, do you? (voice getting louder so that Mom can overhear) Why do you need an AK-47? *Repeats phrase endlessly until Mom joins in*

Case 2

Me: I just bought a new AK-47!
Friend in TX: Cool! When can I shoot it?
----

My father also rolls his eyes and thinks I'm crazy for having a CCW. It's unfathomable to him that anyone would carry a gun on their person. He looks on in disgust when I mention that I carry. The funny thing is, the guy isn't anti-gun per se. He just doesn't like the idea of ME owning them.

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

Five states that are shall issue,still do not allow Open Carry,AR,FL,OK,SC and TX.Strangely,all are are viewed as Southern,(OK on the fringe) gun friendly states.Perhaps the lingering effects of Jim Crow.
All these states need to get into gear and make OC legal.Then the individual makes the decision on CC or OC.

I can see where having the option to OC is better than not having it. That way, if the wind blows your vest around it's no big deal.

But at bottom line, this is a minor consideration. Go to any major city in the OC states and shoot some video of people going about their business. Make it a busy downtown street so you get hundreds of people in the shot. Then count up the number that are OC'ing.

Basically, in cities, almost no one does it.

In rural areas it is a little more common.

CC gives the wearer the element of tactical surprise.

I OC all the time on my little spread here in TX. But I would almost never do it in the city, even if it was legal. Why let the BG's know who among us is armed?

The only exception I can think of is if I were with a group of people and we were all OC'ing. That would surely have a powerful deterrent effect.

But a person alone can easily be ambushed. And in crowded places, you need some kind oif bulky retention holster to make it feasible. Otherwise, it is too easy for someone behind you to snatch the gun.

Because of its limited application, OC laws are not a big deal for me in considering the "gun friendliness" of an area. If TX never went OC it wouldn't bother me a bit.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

I don't like having to conceal a weapon when it's hot outside...I OC most of the summer...

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

I don't like having to conceal a weapon when it's hot outside...I OC most of the summer...

What's more important, being able to do that or getting thrown in prison in the aftermath of being forced to shoot a criminal attacker who was trying to injure or kill you?

 

[jad0110]

If you want to compare states, you can always check out the state's ratings on the Brady Bunch's website; the lower the rating, the better for us .

Brady A rating = Anti-gun or asinine
Brady F rating = Fantastic

 

[Sage of Seattle]

What's more important, being able to do that or getting thrown in prison in the aftermath of being forced to shoot a criminal attacker who was trying to injure or kill you?

How about both?

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 33
FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND
OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
18-3303. EXHIBITION OR USE OF DEADLY WEAPON. Every person who, not in
necessary self-defense, in the presence of two (2) or more persons, draws or
exhibits any deadly weapon in a rude, angry and threatening manner, or who, in
any manner, unlawfully uses the same, in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40
HOMICIDE
18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable
when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against
one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a
felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent,
riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the
purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or
husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there
is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some
great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished;
but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was
the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed;
or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to
apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any
riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

And, to restate what I said above, one can carry either open or concealed without a permit outside of city limits in Idaho; one can carry openly in city limits in the same places one can carry concealed with a permit. K-12 schools, courthouses, sterile areas of airports -- all prohibited places, though even K-12 one is allowed to have a firearm concealed and locked in one's car if dropping off/picking up a student/employee of that school. One cannot carry concealed while intoxicated.

I haven't looked for actual case law, so please don't ask me if I'm willing to be a test case for any of the above.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Forgot to add, Idaho recognizes every other states' CWP, irrespective of reciprocity laws. From Vermont and don't have one? From Wisconsin and can't get one? Come on over and open carry anyway!

Some may not know this, but I used to live in Seattle. *waits for it*

And I didn't even know the extent of the openness and acceptance, both legal and cultural, of firearms ownership in Idaho before I moved down here.

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

I'm not saying that ID is not a good state. It surely is.

I'm just saying that TX is pretty good too. And particularly as to using guns in lawful self defense.

Also, that OC is not that big a deal to me.

BTW, accidental printing, like if the wind blows your vest around, is not the problem in TX that some make it out to be. To violate the law you have to wilfully fail to conceal.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Yes, I agree frankie. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just got a tad carried away when your post actually prompted me to check the statutes myself for clarification which is never a bad thing!

As for OC, I understand the practice is looked upon as fairly negative on THR in general, but for some it's a visible representation of our freedoms.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Nevada - at least in Clark County, in the southern tip where Vegas is - is not all that "gun friendly." In that county you are supposed to register your handguns with the LVMPD, there is a three-day wait for your first handgun purchase, and North Las Vegas (the "ghetto") and Boulder City have handgun restrictions. On the state level, you have to register your carry gun(s) right down to a physical description and serial number, and must live-fire qualify with and carry only those gun(s).

 

[tabsr]

Minnesota

Minnesota is shall issue and a carry permit, not only concealed permit.

Minnesota permits are valid throughout the state of Minnesota.
In addition, Minn. Stat. Section 471.633 states that: “The legislature preempts all authority of a
home rule charter or statutory city including a city of the first class, county, town, municipal corporation, or other governmental subdivision, or any of their instrumentalities, to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them except that: (a) a governmental subdivision may regulate the
discharge of firearms; and (b) a governmental subdivision may adopt regulations identical to state law. Local regulation inconsistent with this section is void.”

These two statutes severely limit a city’s ability to regulate the carrying of handguns. The only possible exceptions appear to be the ability to adopt local regulations limiting the brandishing and discharge of weapons within the city and the possible ability to regulate establishments where handguns may be present. For instance, because the law makes it a crime to possess a pistol while under the influence of alcohol, the city may be able to adopt an amendment to its liquor regulations, requiring all liquor license holders to ban handguns.


Where am I prohibited from carrying my pistol?
• School property
• A childcare center while children are present
• Public colleges and universities – may have policy restricting the carrying of weapons on their premises by employees and students while on campus
• Private establishments that have posted a sign banning guns on their premises
• Private establishments who have personally informed the permit holder that guns are prohibited and demands compliance
• Places of employment, public or private, if employer restricts the carry or possession of firearms by is employees
• State correctional facilities or state hospitals and grounds (MN Statute 243.55)
• Any jail, lockup or correctional facility (MN Statute 641.165)
• Courthouse complexes, unless the sheriff is notified (MN Statute 609.66)
• Offices and courtrooms of the Minnesota Supreme Court and Court of Appeals
• Any state building unless the commissioner of public safety is notified (MN Statute 609.66)
• In a field while hunting big game by archery, except when hunting bear (MN Statute 97B.211)
• In federal court facilities or other federal facilities (Title 18 U.S.C.§ 930)

 

[sig226]

I can think of complaints about Florida gun laws. The permit costs $117 for five years, which is high. You can't carry in a bar. You can carry in the restaurant area of an establishment with a licquor license. Businesses can restrict carry, but the law is pretty weak. All they can really do is tell you to leave, which they can do anywhere.

Florida is class III all the way.

In the red counties, the sheriff will sign your form 4, but in the blue counties, you have to form a trust. The state has a three day wait for handguns, which can be extended to five days and applied to long arms by each county. The blue counties tend to do this.

Regarding castle doctrine, we're way beyond that. Look up stand your ground. There is no duty to retreat in Florida and law enforcement is very good with a justifiable shooting. They're also very good when they make a justifiable shooting. Florida is the place where the sheriff said they fired ninety shots at the dirtbag because they ran out of bullets.

Florida also exempts the shooter from tort in a self defense shooting.

 

[jrfoxx]

Oregon:


NFA friendly? Yes, no restrictions
Preemption? Yes for concealed carry with ccw permit, and open with ccw permit, no for open without ccw permit
Open Carry? Yes, anywhere with CCW permit, cities can restrict without ccw permit (I beleive only 3 do, however)
CCW and where you can do that? ONLY courtrooms, and SECURE areas of jails, prisons, and airports are restricted, everything else is fine, and signs have no meaning
May issue vs Shall issue? Shall issue
Carry Reciprocity? OR permit recognized by 13 states, but we recognize no one elses (I'll admit, that's real bad)
Unlicensed carry in cars, RVs, etc.? handgun open carry (law says must be on belt in holster to be "open") Yes, concealed no (need ccw permit), longuns are unrestricted
Castle Doctrine or similar laws protecting gun owners in self defense cases? published state's AG opinion says a wealth of long standing OR case law has same effect as castle doctrine (take that how you want)
Long gun laws like AWB style things? No
Long gun carry laws? No
Magazine restrictions? No
Purchasing requirements besides usual Fed (FOID etc)? No
Purchasing limits? (1 a month or silliness like that)? No
Restrictions on what you can hunt with? caliber, magazine capacity... Yes, but its pretty reasonable (like no .22lr for deer, bear elk, etc)
State of Emergency confiscation/sale restrictions (Katrina laws). No (I admit this needs to be changed)
Threat of force laws? Firearm may be used (including deadly force) to stop/prevent a felony

 

[wdlsguy]

It's a bit of a stretch to call Missouri NFA friendly. Citizens aren't allowed to own suppressors, and you pretty much have to get and maintain a C&R FFL to own other types of NFA firearms:

No short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, or machine gun may be possessed, manufactured, transported, repaired or sold as a curio, ornament, or keepsake, unless such person is an importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the Gun Control Act of 1968, U.S.C., Title 18, or unless such firearm is an "antique firearm" as defined in subsection 3 of section 571.080, or unless such firearm has been designated a "collectors item" by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the U.S.C., Title 26, Section 5845(a).

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000020.HTM

 

[che_70b]

Kentucky.
Shall issue CCL (8 hour course) Concealed carry was the only thing the Ky constitution alowd laws agaist.
NFA III you bet
We got a castle doctrine bill passed even though we ALWAYS had no duty to retreat just to reenforce the point that Kentuckians don't have to give up ground.
Open carry. yes again

Our only real restriction beyond federal ones are no distiction between muzzle loaders and modern fire arms when It comes to felons owning them.

Note on the felons owning guns.
When Ky.'s sweeping change in criminal law, the Penal Code, went into effect on July 15, 1975, it created a Class D felony (1-5 yrs.) "Possession of a Handgun by a Convicted Felon", but the prior felony conviction must have occurred before 07/15/75. The Penal Code did not restrict felons from having long guns until 07/15/94, when the law was extended to include long guns, and I think upped the handgun law to a Class C (5-10 yrs.). Again, the prior felony conviction must have been incurred on or after 07/15/94. (My dad, who is a retired Ky. State Probation and Parole Officer, is my source for this.)

There is also not much chance of a liberal migration to Ky since the leftists are "a'feared of us hillbillies" and like to avoid us.

 

[Educated Hillbilly]

Ditto, I think Kentucky has far and away the best gun laws of any state. If only we had concealed carry like Vermont and Alaska we would be a true gunowners Utopia.

 

[snewbie]

I think that "having to inform police during a traffic stop or whatever should also be a criteria. Here in Wa, we do not have to inform, thankfully.

 

[Mazeman]

Besides Alaska who has better?

New Hampshire, for one.

Open carry allowed.
NFA friendly.
No registration or permit for ownership of handguns or longarms.
No waiting period.
Allows all the evil features on "assault weapons"
CCW permit easy to get: "Shall issue within 14 days", no training or fingerprints required, costs $10.

Personally I believe NH is the most gun friendly, next to Alaska and Vermont.