Did I pick the wrong rifle to hand load for?

[bikemutt]

I've been working up some hand loads for a Savage 10 in .223 lately. The rifle has always shot sub-MOA, most often sub 1/2-MOA, with Black Hills 69 grain Match King. I decided to work with Hornady Match 68 grain bullets, the Black Hills brass (Lake City I think), CCI primers and Varget.

The problem is I can't seem to beat the factory ammo. Don't get me wrong, I can't make the rifle shoot over MOA; at least not with anything I've hand loaded. Today, just when I thought I had a good 0.4 MOA hand load, I switched to factory and hit a 0.31 MOA group. In fact all the factory groups today looked better than my hand loads. These are all 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

Since I'm new to hand loading I'm starting to think I picked the wrong rifle to work with. In other words, it wasn't broken and now I'm trying fix it. Or, maybe the rifle just likes SMK bullets, I don't know.

I'm thinking I should just count my blessings with this rifle and pick another one to see if I can make hand loads that reliably are more accurate than factory ammo. I'm reaching out for some help and advice from the good folks here at THR.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

That Black Hills ammo is practically match grade. I wouldn't sweat it. Pick up some 69 gr SMKs to load yourself. Even if you only match the Black Hills load, you'll still save money.

 

[Axis II]

try the match king bullets and maybe another powder/primer but workup your load again. I can tell you that powder and primer mean a lot with my 223. factory 55gr v max shot 5 within an inch at 100yards. I began reloading them with h335 and still got the same groups. ReloadRon told me try magnum primers which I did and reworked the load and it tightened them up a bit. I then switched to benchmark and the groups shrunk and on a good day I can make 5 shots touch each other in one hole I can stick my finger in. I also found that going up .3gr in charge helped a lot cause you might miss the sweet spot doing .6

I took the factory ammo that shot good and made it great. try and do the same. don't give up yet. I was a mess when I first started but the great people on here helped me out and look at this I even feel confident giving this little bit of advice now.

 

[Laphroaig]

0.4" isn't too bad. Don't beat yourself up!

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Black hills has a reputation for making some accurate ammo to begin with. I hope you don't get discouraged.

From my limited experience the process to get an accurate load is that its easy to miss a small detail in the process when working up a load. When testing that load too. I would revisit the process from prep to finish.

How about some more details on your process before it gets asked anyway? . from case prep to tools, the whole process.

 

[SARuger]

I can't get varget to shoot good in anything unless it's a heavy bullet and near max.

Try BL-C2 or H335

 

[Rule3]

Umm, Varget is of course a very good powder but doesn't mean it it s the best in the whole world. Try some other powders. Your results are excellent, Nothing to really "complain" about!

 

[WestKentucky]

My .223s have all been picky. Slight variations in powder created huge variations in POI, and never better than 1 MOA. I always chalked it up to .223 having low case volume and a tiny bullet (comparatively). That changed suddenly when I bought varmageddon bullets. .5 MOA was consistent in that rifle. Traded that rifle off with the dies, can of powder, a couple trays of primers, and remaining bullets. My uncle loves that rifle...

I'm just getting going on .223 again for my ARs. Same twist rates...I'm going to Varmageddon with my first bulk bullet buy. If they don't work for me, my uncle will gladly buy them off of me.

Bigger rounds do seem to be more forgiving, .270 win seems exceptionally forgiving.

 

[FROGO207]

Yep can't stress enough that there are MANY good bullets and propellants out there for super accurate 223 loads. You already have brass and a good bullet that you can buy that is known to be accurate. Get some of the Match King bullets and a different type of propellant and try it. I have found that not all bullets will work the best in a particular barrel so finding one already that is good in factory ammo will save time by eliminating that variable. I also subscribe to the theory that the medium velocity propellant in respect to velocity on the burn rate chart will give more consistent, repeatable on target hits when not hot rodded. You are going for small repeatable groups not necessarily at the same point of impact as the factory rounds IMHO.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not every bullet will shoot well in every barrel. Maybe your barrel doesn't like the 68gr Hornady bullet as well as the 69gr Sierra bullet.

If Houdini like the accuracy you are getting with Varget I would not try a ball powder like H335 or BL-C(2). If you think the powder is at fault give H322 a try. It was THE powder if choice when the .222 was the benchrest king. It does very well in the .223 too.

In my bolt action .223 rifle I achieve very good accuracy with a Sierra 55gr GameKing bullet #1390 over a charge of 25.0gr Varget. If you want more velocity I get the same accuracy with a charge of 26.0gr Varget too. That is the best bullet for my rifle so far.

 

[bikemutt]

My word, thank you all for help. I'll outline my hand loading procedure a bit later for peer review.

 

[7mmb]

You can't go wrong with Match Kings. Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you trying to beat those Black Hills loads.

 

[JO JO]

I have had real good results with 69gr match kings and ramshot TAC , I think the black hills factory load may use tac as well but not sure on that but
it works great for me

 

[SARuger]

I tried everything through my Ruger American .223 and 69g SMK's. I finally tried H335 and ended up 1/2 MOA at 100. I'm MOA at 250. It was a close shootout with BLC-2 and H335. CFE 223 worked okay. Varget and IMR 4064 were way off. But as I tried some larger bullets, Varget really started to turn on. My 1-8 twist Ruger was shooting 77g and 75g almost as good as the match kings, MOA at 100.

My other .223, a Mini 14, really likes CFE 223 but its hard to find around here right now so I tried H335 and I get MOA at 100 with 60g Vmax

Every rifle is different. Thats what makes this hobby so interesting.

 

[rskent]

I think if a Black Hills 69 Matchking shot that good in my rifle, the first thing I would want to do is chronograph their load.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had very good luck with the 69gr SMK and Varget. I found the sweet spot near max with Varget. The Hornady 68gr does not shoot as well as the SMK in my gun. There is a 0.090" different in length between the 2 bullets seperated by 1 gr, with 68 being longer. Ramshot TAC as been very good too. H335 works better with a Mag primers , Rem 7 1/2 or CCI #41. Not so great with the std ones. Also if you change powders it may take a few rounds to season your barrel. The same can be said for changing bullets. Some guns are sensitive to small changes. On the 223R I step up the charge in 0.2 gr when I 1 gr from the max charge, so I don't jump over the node. Then I go back and fill in when I find out which loads it liked best. You want to use all the same brass. Separating by weight helps to tighten the spread. All having the same number of firings, helps with consistent neck tension. But after each firing this changes. This is one of the reason long distance shooters use new brass or anneal after every firing, to keep things consistent.

There is not a really fast way in finding a good load if your looking for optimum BE accuracy. It does take time and components to work through the process.

 

[25-5]

FWIW. I get sub moa with my m1a using varget and 168gr amax. I have tried to duplicate with smk and have been unsuccessful.

 

[jmorris]

Sounds to me like you have a perfect rifle to hand load for and good baseline ammunition as well.

You have a chance to learn much more that you would with a rifle that shot nothing well. You are not going to see significant improvements in reduction of group size but your methods on reloading could benefit greatly.

 

[bikemutt]

Wow, so many great ideas for me to try, thank you all.

I think I'll start with rskent's suggestion to chronograph the Black Hills load. And, I'll pick up some SMKs 69 grain bullets.

Right now I'm using a Lee turret press without the auto-indexer, so it's essentially a single-stage press. I'm using the Lee ultimate die set. I have been using the neck sizing collet die since the brass all comes from this rifle. I've used the Hornady devices to measure the length from where the bullet ogive touches the lands. My best results came from seating 5 thousands off the lands. I am crimping as the final step.

Case prep so far has been to use 4 ought steel wool to clean the necks and a Franklin Arsenal rotary tool to clean the primer pockets.

 

[jmorris]

I've used the Hornady devices to measure the length from where the bullet ogive touches the lands. My best results came from seating 5 thousands off the lands.

I took what you wrote as your best results were with the Black Hills ammunition. If that were true, I would be inclined to duplicate that load first and match its accuracy, then change one variable at a time, keeping what improves and noting what doesn't.

 

[Rule3]

Most commercial ammo uses powders bulk) that are not available to us. So you will have to find the powder that is closest to what they use.

Buy a box of their ammo, pull it apart and then reload it. Should be good to go.

 

[jmorris]

Most commercial ammo uses powders bulk) that are not available to us.

A lot of them are the same thing with a different name and they come in cardboard drums instead of 1lb jugs with stickers on them. There are more companies that sell powder than manufacture it, so there are more than a few that are identical except for packaging.

So if your powder comes from St. Marks, it might be called OBP242, if you buy the same powder in a 1lb container with a Hodgdon sticker on it, it would be called Titegroup.

 

[forrest r]

That Black Hills ammo is practically match grade. I wouldn't sweat it. Pick up some 69 gr SMKs to load yourself. Even if you only match the Black Hills load, you'll still save money.

+1 try a different bullet

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Wow, so many great ideas for me to try, thank you all.

I think I'll start with rskent's suggestion to chronograph the Black Hills load. And, I'll pick up some SMKs 69 grain bullets.

Right now I'm using a Lee turret press without the auto-indexer, so it's essentially a single-stage press. I'm using the Lee ultimate die set. I have been using the neck sizing collet die since the brass all comes from this rifle. I've used the Hornady devices to measure the length from where the bullet ogive touches the lands. My best results came from seating 5 thousands off the lands. I am crimping as the final step.

Case prep so far has been to use 4 ought steel wool to clean the necks and a Franklin Arsenal rotary tool to clean the primer pockets.

Just out of Curiosity, what is your powder charge process? if you want consistency for sub .5" MOA groups your measuring needs to be on par. Are you measuring each charge?

 

[horsey300]

Wow, so many great ideas for me to try, thank you all.

I think I'll start with rskent's suggestion to chronograph the Black Hills load. And, I'll pick up some SMKs 69 grain bullets.

Right now I'm using a Lee turret press without the auto-indexer, so it's essentially a single-stage press. I'm using the Lee ultimate die set. I have been using the neck sizing collet die since the brass all comes from this rifle. I've used the Hornady devices to measure the length from where the bullet ogive touches the lands. My best results came from seating 5 thousands off the lands. I am crimping as the final step.

Case prep so far has been to use 4 ought steel wool to clean the necks and a Franklin Arsenal rotary tool to clean the primer pockets.

I neck size with gorgeous results but I don't do something that you do. I sincerely advise you to load 20 of your best handload and SKIP THE CRIMP, test em against 20 crimped, I'm getting ragged holes pretty consistently, however if your crimped rounds fare better than uncrimped, I will tip my hat to you for beating the odds! Neck tension alone keeps the bullet aligned straighter than a crimp, the crimp provides the slightest pinch point to cant slightly off. I am sure all the factory loads are crimped but you're not in a factory so there's no reason not to give it a try.