WestKentucky
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Does anybody actually know the reasoning behind the way that revolver barrels are measured differently than every other conventional weapon?
Difference in legal barrel measure?
- Thread starter WestKentucky
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As far as I know, there is no prescribed "legal" barrel measurement for handguns in the U.S. because there are no legal restrictions on the barrel length of handguns in the U.S.
From a practical standpoint, the barrels are measured differently because they are different. If you place a revolver barrel and an autopistol barrel next to each other, the difference is obvious. The autopistol barrel incorporates the chamber while the revolver barrel does not.
What I'm trying to say is that there's not a convention that states revolver barrels should be measured differently than other barrels. Because revolver barrels don't incorporate a chamber, they are shorter for a given length of rifled bore than barrels which do incorporate a chamber.
From a practical standpoint, the barrels are measured differently because they are different. If you place a revolver barrel and an autopistol barrel next to each other, the difference is obvious. The autopistol barrel incorporates the chamber while the revolver barrel does not.
What I'm trying to say is that there's not a convention that states revolver barrels should be measured differently than other barrels. Because revolver barrels don't incorporate a chamber, they are shorter for a given length of rifled bore than barrels which do incorporate a chamber.
Theohazard
Member
Shotgun and rifle barrels both have a prescribed method of barrel measurement per the ATF, and that’s due to the barrel length requirements on rifles and shotguns that are set forth by the 1934 NFA.
But a handgun has no legal barrel length limit under federal law, so the barrel length of handguns is simply measured by tradition, not ATF regulations.
So, as JohnKSa pointed out, the measurement differences between a semi-auto and a revolver are based on the technical differences and not on any legal requirements.
That said, on a revolver rifle like the Rossi Circuit Judge the legal barrel length includes the cylinder and ends at the breech face, since that’s the legal method of measuring a long gun barrel per the ATF.
But a handgun has no legal barrel length limit under federal law, so the barrel length of handguns is simply measured by tradition, not ATF regulations.
So, as JohnKSa pointed out, the measurement differences between a semi-auto and a revolver are based on the technical differences and not on any legal requirements.
That said, on a revolver rifle like the Rossi Circuit Judge the legal barrel length includes the cylinder and ends at the breech face, since that’s the legal method of measuring a long gun barrel per the ATF.
OP
OP
WestKentucky
Member
So, from legal standpoint, if my .357 SAA revolver has a 15-1/2” barrel (measured forcing cone to muzzle) plus the nearly 2” cylinder length, then it could LEGALLY be fitted with an aftermarket shoulder stock?
The length of a long gun's barrel is measured from the muzzle to the breechface regardless of the action type.
From the ATF's FAQ section
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm
Can I lawfully make a pistol into a rifle without registering that firearm?
Assuming that the firearm was originally a pistol, the resulting firearm, with an attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length. Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such configuration would not be considered a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(4).
[26 U.S.C. § 5845, 27 C.F.R. § 479.11; ATF Ruling 2011-4]
From the ATF's FAQ section
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm
Can I lawfully make a pistol into a rifle without registering that firearm?
Assuming that the firearm was originally a pistol, the resulting firearm, with an attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length. Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such configuration would not be considered a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(4).
[26 U.S.C. § 5845, 27 C.F.R. § 479.11; ATF Ruling 2011-4]
Theohazard
Member
Yes. If you added a shoulder stock, then it would be a rifle. And since your rifle has a 17+ inch barrel length as measured from the end of the muzzle to the breech face, it would be a normal rifle and not an illegal unregistered short barrel rifle.
EDIT: I forgot to mention there’s a 26” overall length limit for a rifle also, but if a revolver has a 16” barrel and a shoulder stock it’s going to measure well over 26” OAL.
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Arizona_Mike
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If this is true I could shorted my Circuit Judge. I believe it is 18" past thr cylinder.
Mike
Mike
You can shorten it to the minimum length that is legal for a rifle. Remember this means that not only the barrel but also the overall length must conform to federal law. If I were you, I'd leave just a little extra in case you measure wrong.
Arizona_Mike
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It is 35.5" OAL with an 18.5" bbl measured revolver style (not including cylinder). I think you could take 5-5.5" off. Of course I'd leave an extra quarter inch or so. I'd just needed someone to rethread the choke adapters.
Mike
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I have a High-Standard Model 10B shotgun with a nominally 18 and a smidge barrel, made in the 1970s I imagine. When I bought it a few years ago, the gun shop doing the transfer here in CA did a lot of headscratching ... they had a wooden dowel marked for 18", and the dowel went into the barrel (with the bolt closed) with the 18" marking right at the muzzle. They eventually decided the barrel was 18" and a hair long ... quite a relief, since I didn't want to suddenly start the short-barrel shotgun process.
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In California, the process for an NFA item is very brief. You cannot have one.
Elkins45
Member
The process is quite long, however, should you be found in possession of one
OP
OP
WestKentucky
Member
I bought a marlin trap gun that was chopped several years ago. I measured it at 18 and a hair. One long night a traffic stop turned into 4 hours of measuring, calling, waiting for other officers, calling other people, measuring again... after about 3-1/2 hours a higher ranking state police officer rolled in. Gun was not yet cleared, and nobody except me knew how to. He had me clear the gun for him, then we as a group measured it. Nobody could conclusively say it was illegal. I left with a note and a phone number that the gun was legal. I sold the gun shortly afterwards.
Jim Watson
Member
Interesting thoughts about revolving carbines.
There IS a legal specification on revolver barrel length... for imports.
The "point system" for handgun importation eligibility specifies for revolvers: "Barrel length (muzzle to cylinder face)."
There IS a legal specification on revolver barrel length... for imports.
The "point system" for handgun importation eligibility specifies for revolvers: "Barrel length (muzzle to cylinder face)."
Arizona_Mike
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I pulled mine out of the safe. 18.5" rifled revolver barrel + 3.125 cylinder = 21.625" rifle (legal) barrel length. You could take 5.5" off the barrel and 4" off the stock and still be legal.
The way the stock is laid out so you can move about .75"-1" off without making it unattractive and reuse the same but recoil pad. The factory 14.5 inch length of pull is kind of high for this type of light gun. Mid 13" range would be very nice.
You would have to go with a completely different rear sights to get a decent sight radius like a peep mounted in front of the hammer instead of the Weaver rail.
The hardest part of the conversation would be threading the adapter for the special straight rifled choke that stops the shot cup from spinning.
Mike
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