different in Subs & Real BP

[Mark_Mark]

what the real difference between Substitutes like triple-7 and say Swiss?

new to BP, I know BP is hard to find locally. But triple-7 is everywhere. I’m more of a LGS with Cash kidda guy, so I’ll wait for BP to arrive locally.

Anyways, what the real difference?

 

[hawg]

You're going to be waiting a long time for it to be available locally. I've never used T7 but it's 15% hotter than bp volume to volume. Pyrodex is about the equal to Swiss volume to volume. Swiss is hotter than Goex.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

triple 7 sounds and acts more like a smokeless powder then a black powder. triple seven makes more of a loud crack or pop then a Deep Low Boooooom.
I had hangfires when using triple 7 and have not used it since.
i encourage you to find a friend here on the boards that lives close to you that may be able to turn you onto a pound or two of the holy black.
If you see black powder available online buy as much as you can afford without hurting your pocket book for that week, month, etc....
I usually buiy in quantity when i can afford it. Black powder doesnt go bad or expire so if you buy a case and never use it all, its perfectly safe to pass onto your children

 

[Mark_Mark]

triple 7 sounds and acts more like a smokeless powder then a black powder. triple seven makes more of a loud crack or pop then a Deep Low Boooooom.
I had hangfires when using triple 7 and have not used it since.
i encourage you to find a friend here on the boards that lives close to you that may be able to turn you onto a pound or two of the holy black.
If you see black powder available online buy as much as you can afford without hurting your pocket book for that week, month, etc....
I usually buiy in quantity when i can afford it. Black powder doesnt go bad or expire so if you buy a case and never use it all, its perfectly safe to pass onto your children

that’s why you folks call it Holly Black. Never expires. I like that idea!

alright, I’ll break my rules, save some money and buy some online. I shot BP at my local shooting club and it just felt right. Smell and sound. And very accurate too! I was hitting a plastic coke bottle with a flint lock at 50 yards! impressive. Love that BP guns can be shipped directly to your house.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The BATF classifies real Black Powder as an explosive. This means local regulations for storage, particularly in gun stores can be more onerous than with Smokeless powder, which is classified as a progressively burning propellant, not an explosive.

Black Powder substitutes are not classified as explosives, they fall under the same regulations as Smokeless powders, so storage regulations for the substitutes can be less onerous than with Real Black Powder.

That is one reason you are finding Triple Seven everywhere. It has always been that way.

As an example, there used to be a shop about an hour from me where I would buy real Black Powder, usually 3 pounds at a time. One day the clerk of the shop screwed up renewing their paperwork, and in order to renew their permission from the BATF to continue selling real Black Powder, they had to make several, expensive changes to the storage facility where they stored the BP. As a result, the shop stopped selling real Black Powder and from then on only sold the substitutes.

The first, and original Black Powder substitute was Pyrodex. Pyrodex was formulated to have the same energy as real Black Powder, volume wise But Pyrodex tends to be more corrosive than real Black Powder.

Just like with real Black Powder, if you are going to use Pyrodex in metallic cartridges, it is best to use bullets lubed with a soft, Black Powder compatible bullet lube such as SPG. Using standard, modern Smokeless bullet lube with real Black Powder or Pyrodex usually results in hard caked fouling in the bore that can ruin accuracy and be difficult to remove. Using a BP compatible bullet lube prevents this.

Triple Seven is made by Hodgdon. I have always heard 10% for how much more energetic Triple Seven is than real Black Powder, but 10% or 15%, Triple Seven is a bit more energetic. Unlike real Black Powder, which performs best with a little bit of compression, Triple Seven should not be compressed. When loaded into cartridges, just enough should be used so that it touches the base of the bullet. Just like with real Black Powder,do not allow any airspace between the powder and the projectile.

The other BP substitute that I am aware of is American Pioneer Powder (APP). The beauty of APP is it does not require a BP compatible bullet lube, it can be used in cartridges with regular Smokeless style bullet lube. A bunch of years ago I wanted to load some 38 S&W (not 38 Special) with BP but did not have any bullets for 38 S&W with BP compatible bullet lube (38 S&W bullets are slightly larger in diameter than 38 Special bullets.) So I loaded up some 38 S&W with some bullets with standard Smokeless bullet lube without any problems. It has been quite a while since I loaded those rounds, but I seem to recall I did not compress the powder, I seated the bullets at the top of the powder charge.






One thing you are going to hear a lot about is "Grains Volume". There is no such thing. But the idea is the Substitutes, except Triple Seven, were formulated to have the same energy as an equivalent volume of Black Powder. So generally speaking, using a volumetric powder measure like this one, simply set the volume on it to be the same as you would for a charge of Black Powder and you will be good to go. If you look closely, the sliding dohicky on this powder measure is set for 30 grains. If I wanted a load of Pyrodex or APP the same as a charge of Black Powder, that is how I would set it.






One last thing. I find it annoying when shooters refer to real Black Powder as the 'Holy Black'. There is nothing holy about Black Powder, it is simply an old fashioned propellant. Calling it the Holy Black just adds to the confusion about shooting real Black Powder.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Howdy

The BATF classifies real Black Powder as an explosive. This means local regulations for storage, particularly in gun stores can be more onerous than with Smokeless powder, which is classified as a progressively burning propellant, not an explosive.

Black Powder substitutes are not classified as explosives, they fall under the same regulations as Smokeless powders, so storage regulations for the substitutes can be less onerous than with Real Black Powder.

That is one reason you are finding Triple Seven everywhere. It has always been that way.

As an example, there used to be a shop about an hour from me where I would buy real Black Powder, usually 3 pounds at a time. One day the clerk of the shop screwed up renewing their paperwork, and in order to renew their permission from the BATF to continue selling real Black Powder, they had to make several, expensive changes to the storage facility where they stored the BP. As a result, the shop stopped selling real Black Powder and from then on only sold the substitutes.

The first, and original Black Powder substitute was Pyrodex. Pyrodex was formulated to have the same energy as real Black Powder, volume wise But Pyrodex tends to be more corrosive than real Black Powder.

Just like with real Black Powder, if you are going to use Pyrodex in metallic cartridges, it is best to use bullets lubed with a soft, Black Powder compatible bullet lube such as SPG. Using standard, modern Smokeless bullet lube with real Black Powder or Pyrodex usually results in hard caked fouling in the bore that can ruin accuracy and be difficult to remove. Using a BP compatible bullet lube prevents this.

Triple Seven is made by Hodgdon. I have always heard 10% for how much more energetic Triple Seven is than real Black Powder, but 10% or 15%, Triple Seven is a bit more energetic. Unlike real Black Powder, which performs best with a little bit of compression, Triple Seven should not be compressed. When loaded into cartridges, just enough should be used so that it touches the base of the bullet. Just like with real Black Powder,do not allow any airspace between the powder and the projectile.

The other BP substitute that I am aware of is American Pioneer Powder (APP). The beauty of APP is it does not require a BP compatible bullet lube, it can be used in cartridges with regular Smokeless style bullet lube. A bunch of years ago I wanted to load some 38 S&W (not 38 Special) with BP but did not have any bullets for 38 S&W with BP compatible bullet lube (38 S&W bullets are slightly larger in diameter than 38 Special bullets.) So I loaded up some 38 S&W with some bullets with standard Smokeless bullet lube without any problems. It has been quite a while since I loaded those rounds, but I seem to recall I did not compress the powder, I seated the bullets at the top of the powder charge.

View attachment 1097269




One thing you are going to hear a lot about is "Grains Volume". There is no such thing. But the idea is the Substitutes, except Triple Seven, were formulated to have the same energy as an equivalent volume of Black Powder. So generally speaking, using a volumetric powder measure like this one, simply set the volume on it to be the same as you would for a charge of Black Powder and you will be good to go. If you look closely, the sliding dohicky on this powder measure is set for 30 grains. If I wanted a load of Pyrodex or APP the same as a charge of Black Powder, that is how I would set it.

View attachment 1097270




One last thing. I find it annoying when shooters refer to real Black Powder as the 'Holy Black'. There is nothing holy about Black Powder, it is simply an old fashioned propellant. Calling it the Holy Black just adds to the confusion about shooting real Black Powder.

thanks for the write up!! lots of helpful tips there.

Loading questions. How to you know you’re just touching the powder. Are you visually looking into the case, drawing a line, and seating the bullet to the line?

same question when loading in the cylinder, do you eventually just know what it “Feels” like when touching the powder?

 

[hawg]

Personally I don't find Pyrodex any more corrosive than black. You would eventually learn when it's touching by feel. I wouldn't want a powder that finicky. T7 may be just 10% hotter. Like I say I never used it but it seems like it used to be advertised that way. I never could see paying the price for it.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

A couple of quick points, there's nothing wrong with shooting substitute powders, they all go bang. You ain't gonna light em off reliably in a rocklock. Stick to the black for them. In reloading cartridge with T7 make a gauge or a mark on the side of the case, fill the case to the mark, seat the bullet to the mark. Try not to compress the stuff as pressures go all over the place as does accuracy. Pryodex is completely different, you can and should compress it a bit. Some folks Pyrodex is really corrosive, some say not. I've never had an issue with it but I am fanatical about cleaning after a shooting session. So that being said, go forth, have fun, shoot, be free, clean after shooting.

 

[Bfh_auto]

My experience has been loose 777 is best in inline.
Real black is best in percussion or flint.
Your results may vary.

 

[hawg]

A couple of quick points, there's nothing wrong with shooting substitute powders, they all go bang. You ain't gonna light em off reliably in a rocklock.

You're not going to like them in a Sharps paper cutter either.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Loading questions. How to you know you’re just touching the powder. Are you visually looking into the case, drawing a line, and seating the bullet to the line?

same question when loading in the cylinder, do you eventually just know what it “Feels” like when touching the powder?

Howdy Again

With a Cap & Ball revolver you ram the ball in and should feel a 'crunch' as the ball compresses the powder a little bit. Be sure to use a ball which is slightly oversized, so a thin ring of lead is shaved off as the ball is seated. This forms the seal in the chamber. Always use pure lead balls in a C&B revolver, anything harder and you may damage the screw the loading lever pivots on as you ram the ball home.

When loading cartridges with Black Powder, I line up the bullet with the crimp groove where it will wind up when the bullet is seated.






Then I make a little 'ruler' with a stick, with a line drawn measuring off the distance between the crimp groove and the base of the bullet.






Pardon the long fingernails, my wife was helping out when I took this photo. I only shoot real Black Powder. I like to compress it between 1/16" and 1/8" when the bullet is seated. In this photo, my wife is holding the little 'ruler' with the mark even with the case mouth. This happens to be a 45 Colt case. Holding the measure like this, I pour in enough powder so that the bottom of the little 'ruler' is buried between 1/16" to 1/8" in powder. That will be the correct amount of powder for that particular cartridge and that particular bullet. I pour out the powder and set a powder measure to portion out that exact amount of powder. If you want to pour in enough of a sub so that the powder just touches the base of the bullet, you can still use the little ruler, just don't bury it, pour in just enough powder to come to the bottom of the ruler. Hint: this is not rocket science. If you have a tiny amount of compression with one of the subs, it really does not matter too much.






Note: if a different bullet is going to be used, with a different amount which protrudes into the case, the process will need to be repeated for the new bullet.



There are lots of ways to portion out Black Powder. These are plastic dippers sold by Lee Precision. The set includes 15 dippers in graduated sizes. You will note that the Lee dippers are labeled in Cubic Centimeters (CCs) which is a valid measure of volume. The same as a milliliter, just an older name. You can also make up custom dippers from empty brass and solder on a brass wire for a handle. The point is, once you have decided how much powder to use for the particular cartridge, you select the dipper which best portions out the amount you have decided on.






If I am only loading a few cartridges, I will dip the powder out of a mug, using a funnel to pour it into each case. The correct way to do this is to use the dipper like an ice cream scoop and scoop up a heaping dipper full of powder. Then you use a stiff piece of card to scrape off the excess back into the mug. This way you will get a consistent load every time you scoop. It is also important to scoop out the powder with a consistent amount of force each time, to help keep your loads consistent.






I usually load 200 rounds at a time, so I usually load my Black Powder cartridges on a Hornady Lock and Load progressive press. The press on the left has an aluminum Black Powder Measure installed on it specifically for loading Black Powder cartridges.






Here is a batch of Black Powder 45 Colt being loaded on my Hornady press.






The Lyman Black Powder measure uses the same rotors to measure out the powder as a standard old Lyman #55 powder measure. I pickup old Lyman powder measures on the white elephant table at gunshows and canbabalize them for the rotors.






Each rotor is set for the standard amount of powder I use with the cartridges I load with Black Powder. I throw the same amount of powder for both 45 Colt and 44-40, which is what this rotor is set for.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Howdy Again

With a Cap & Ball revolver you ram the ball in and should feel a 'crunch' as the ball compresses the powder a little bit. Be sure to use a ball which is slightly oversized, so a thin ring of lead is shaved off as the ball is seated. This forms the seal in the chamber. Always use pure lead balls in a C&B revolver, anything harder and you may damage the screw the loading lever pivots on as you ram the ball home.

When loading cartridges with Black Powder, I line up the bullet with the crimp groove where it will wind up when the bullet is seated.

View attachment 1097300




Then I make a little 'ruler' with a stick, with a line drawn measuring off the distance between the crimp groove and the base of the bullet.

View attachment 1097301




Pardon the long fingernails, my wife was helping out when I took this photo. I only shoot real Black Powder. I like to compress it between 1/16" and 1/8" when the bullet is seated. In this photo, my wife is holding the little 'ruler' with the mark even with the case mouth. This happens to be a 45 Colt case. Holding the measure like this, I pour in enough powder so that the bottom of the little 'ruler' is buried between 1/16" to 1/8" in powder. That will be the correct amount of powder for that particular cartridge and that particular bullet. I pour out the powder and set a powder measure to portion out that exact amount of powder. If you want to pour in enough of a sub so that the powder just touches the base of the bullet, you can still use the little ruler, just don't bury it, pour in just enough powder to come to the bottom of the ruler. Hint: this is not rocket science. If you have a tiny amount of compression with one of the subs, it really does not matter too much.

View attachment 1097302




Note: if a different bullet is going to be used, with a different amount which protrudes into the case, the process will need to be repeated for the new bullet.



There are lots of ways to portion out Black Powder. These are plastic dippers sold by Lee Precision. The set includes 15 dippers in graduated sizes. You will note that the Lee dippers are labeled in Cubic Centimeters (CCs) which is a valid measure of volume. The same as a milliliter, just an older name. You can also make up custom dippers from empty brass and solder on a brass wire for a handle. The point is, once you have decided how much powder to use for the particular cartridge, you select the dipper which best portions out the amount you have decided on.

View attachment 1097303




If I am only loading a few cartridges, I will dip the powder out of a mug, using a funnel to pour it into each case. The correct way to do this is to use the dipper like an ice cream scoop and scoop up a heaping dipper full of powder. Then you use a stiff piece of card to scrape off the excess back into the mug. This way you will get a consistent load every time you scoop. It is also important to scoop out the powder with a consistent amount of force each time, to help keep your loads consistent.

View attachment 1097304




I usually load 200 rounds at a time, so I usually load my Black Powder cartridges on a Hornady Lock and Load progressive press. The press on the left has an aluminum Black Powder Measure installed on it specifically for loading Black Powder cartridges.

View attachment 1097305




Here is a batch of Black Powder 45 Colt being loaded on my Hornady press.

View attachment 1097306




The Lyman Black Powder measure uses the same rotors to measure out the powder as a standard old Lyman #55 powder measure. I pickup old Lyman powder measures on the white elephant table at gunshows and canbabalize them for the rotors.

View attachment 1097307




Each rotor is set for the standard amount of powder I use with the cartridges I load with Black Powder. I throw the same amount of powder for both 45 Colt and 44-40, which is what this rotor is set for.

View attachment 1097308

I asked and my questions are seriously and detail answered. Wow, you guys here in the Black Powder section are alright! I usually hang out in the Reloading & Hand loading section.

 

[hawg]

The thing about bp is you may get a dozen different answers but that doesn't mean any of them are wrong.

 

[Mark_Mark]

The thing about bp is you may get a dozen different answers but that doesn't mean any of them are wrong.

we are worst in the reloading section… don’t go over there if you have a thin skin

 

[crstrode]

Pyrodex tends to be more corrosive than real Black Powder

Not in my 40 years of black powder experience.

Similarly, don't strain your brain over his one:

Just like with real Black Powder,do not allow any airspace between the powder and the projectile.

It is nonsense.

 

[Mark_Mark]

How does BP meter? frustrating or easy

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

How does BP meter? frustrating or easy

Black Powder meters just fine.

The finer it is, the more smoothly it meters. I used to stock FFFg for revolver ammo and FFg for rifle and shotgun ammo. These days, just to keep it simple I only keep FFg on hand. All things being equal, I will get somewhere between 60 fps - 100 fps less velocity with FFg than I would with a similar amount of FFFg. Not enough to make a difference for my purposes, so it is easier just to keep FFg around.

You might want to to consider a powder measure that is specific for Black Powder, like the Lyman one I have on my Hornady Lock and Load.

The only difference between this powder measure and the standard Lyman #55 measures is the hopper is aluminum. You will hear a lot of stuff about how Black Powder can be ignited by a static spark, and a lot of guys will tell you the powder measure needs to be grounded. I have not grounded my powder measure for a couple of reasons I will not go into here. The most important thing about this measure is it will not create a mechanical spark, because the measuring rotor is brass. The body is cast iron, and the hopper is aluminum. But the brass rotor rotating in the iron body will not create a mechanical spark.






Black Powder is not as energetic as most Smokeless powders. That is why cartridges that were first developed in the Black Powder era, such as 45 Colt, 44-40, and even 38 Special have such a large powder capacity.

The one thing you should be prepared with when loading Black Powder is you will go through a lot of it. When I load 45 Colt with Smokeless, I usually use a charge of 7.5 grains of Unique. When loading 45 Colt with Black Powder I fill up the case. If I were to weigh the charge, it would be about 33.5 grains. There are 7,000 grains in a pound. The math tells us I will only be able to load about 200 cartridges with a pound of Black Powder. I can get over 900 rounds out of a pound of Unique.

That is why some of us stock up on a lot of Black Powder when possible. I usually go in with a friend and we split a 20 pound case of BP every year or two.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Black Powder meters just fine.

The finer it is, the more smoothly it meters. I used to stock FFFg for revolver ammo and FFg for rifle and shotgun ammo. These days, just to keep it simple I only keep FFg on hand. All things being equal, I will get somewhere between 60 fps - 100 fps less velocity with FFg than I would with a similar amount of FFFg. Not enough to make a difference for my purposes, so it is easier just to keep FFg around.

You might want to to consider a powder measure that is specific for Black Powder, like the Lyman one I have on my Hornady Lock and Load.

The only difference between this powder measure and the standard Lyman #55 measures is the hopper is aluminum. You will hear a lot of stuff about how Black Powder can be ignited by a static spark, and a lot of guys will tell you the powder measure needs to be grounded. I have not grounded my powder measure for a couple of reasons I will not go into here. The most important thing about this measure is it will not create a mechanical spark, because the measuring rotor is brass. The body is cast iron, and the hopper is aluminum. But the brass rotor rotating in the iron body will not create a mechanical spark.

View attachment 1097378




Black Powder is not as energetic as most Smokeless powders. That is why cartridges that were first developed in the Black Powder era, such as 45 Colt, 44-40, and even 38 Special have such a large powder capacity.

The one thing you should be prepared with when loading Black Powder is you will go through a lot of it. When I load 45 Colt with Smokeless, I usually use a charge of 7.5 grains of Unique. When loading 45 Colt with Black Powder I fill up the case. If I were to weigh the charge, it would be about 33.5 grains. There are 7,000 grains in a pound. The math tells us I will only be able to load about 200 cartridges with a pound of Black Powder. I can get over 900 rounds out of a pound of Unique.

That is why some of us stock up on a lot of Black Powder when possible. I usually go in with a friend and we split a 20 pound case of BP every year or two.

I don’t want to sound unappreciated by not responding to you post quickly. I’m still dissecting and translate it into smokeless reloading.

I 100% appreciated the knowledge.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The bottom line is, loading Black Powder is actually less fussy than loading Smokeless.

As I mentioned, I put 7.5 grains of Unique into a 45 Colt when I am loading with Smokeless. I purposely use Unique because it is very forgiving, and takes up more space than some other powders.

Let's say I was using an imaginary powder called Whiz Bang. The charts for Whiz Bang might say something like the minimum charge is 3.5 grains and the maximum charge is 5.5 grains. So if I made a little mistake and accidentally put 6 grains of Whiz Bang into a cartridge, I might have created a potential bomb. With Black Powder, a grain or two more or less is not all that important. As I said, with my standard 45 Colt load under a 250 grain bullet, I put in 2.2CCs of Schuetzen which weighs out to about 33.5 grains. An accidental overcharge of a couple of grains of Black Powder will not make much difference at all. If you want to be shooting long range single shot rifles for extreme accuracy, a couple of grains might make a slight difference in keeping the group small, but we always say you cannot stuff enough Black Powder into a modern cartridge firearm in good mechanical condition to blow it up.

Be safe, no smoking around Black Powder (duh) and that's pretty much it.

 

[J-Bar]

The dreaded air gap between blackpowder/ bp substitute and a projectile…

There is enough historical, anecdotal evidence that an air gap between black powder and projectile can cause barrel bulges or barrel rupture that one should not dismiss the concern completely. But there are a dizzying number of variables involved. Caliber, weight of projectile, volume of powder used, brand and granulation size of the powder, amount of the air gap itself, etc. Isolating and testing each combination of variables is beyond my means and interest.

I know from personal experience that a scant air gap in a .38 Special blackpowder cartridge causes no problem. But I am not going to encourage anyone to ignore the presence of a gap. I view the old rule of thumb, “ don’t allow an air gap between powder and projectile” as an easy safe way to avoid potential dangers that could be caused by all those other variables.

You pays your money and you takes your chance.

 

[hawg]

I started questioning the air gap deal when I got my 1863 Sharps. Because of the way the breech block is made you can't possibly have no air gap. Mine held 110 grains of loose powder with a ringtail bullet. The factory recommended charge was 80 grains. Now the powder would touch the bullet but the top 1/3 or so of the chamber was nothing but air. I have seen videos of people loading 40-50 grains and bumping the butt on the ground to get as much powder next to the breech block as they could. That left a substantial air gap between powder and bullet but they suffered no ill effects.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Black Powder meters just fine.

The finer it is, the more smoothly it meters. I used to stock FFFg for revolver ammo and FFg for rifle and shotgun ammo. These days, just to keep it simple I only keep FFg on hand. All things being equal, I will get somewhere between 60 fps - 100 fps less velocity with FFg than I would with a similar amount of FFFg. Not enough to make a difference for my purposes, so it is easier just to keep FFg around.

You might want to to consider a powder measure that is specific for Black Powder, like the Lyman one I have on my Hornady Lock and Load.

The only difference between this powder measure and the standard Lyman #55 measures is the hopper is aluminum. You will hear a lot of stuff about how Black Powder can be ignited by a static spark, and a lot of guys will tell you the powder measure needs to be grounded. I have not grounded my powder measure for a couple of reasons I will not go into here. The most important thing about this measure is it will not create a mechanical spark, because the measuring rotor is brass. The body is cast iron, and the hopper is aluminum. But the brass rotor rotating in the iron body will not create a mechanical spark.






Black Powder is not as energetic as most Smokeless powders. That is why cartridges that were first developed in the Black Powder era, such as 45 Colt, 44-40, and even 38 Special have such a large powder capacity.

The one thing you should be prepared with when loading Black Powder is you will go through a lot of it. When I load 45 Colt with Smokeless, I usually use a charge of 7.5 grains of Unique. When loading 45 Colt with Black Powder I fill up the case. If I were to weigh the charge, it would be about 33.5 grains. There are 7,000 grains in a pound. The math tells us I will only be able to load about 200 cartridges with a pound of Black Powder. I can get over 900 rounds out of a pound of Unique.

That is why some of us stock up on a lot of Black Powder when possible. I usually go in with a friend and we split a 20 pound case of BP every year or two.

I have a progressive press lee press that I’ll dedicate to BP cartridges. And looks like a new powder drop is in my future. I can easy ground my powder drop since my water pipe main is in my reloading room. 45 Colt will is on my list!

So your telling my it takes 33 grains of BP for a 45 Colt! that a ton of powder!

 

[Mark_Mark]

The bottom line is, loading Black Powder is actually less fussy than loading Smokeless.

As I mentioned, I put 7.5 grains of Unique into a 45 Colt when I am loading with Smokeless. I purposely use Unique because it is very forgiving, and takes up more space than some other powders.

Let's say I was using an imaginary powder called Whiz Bang. The charts for Whiz Bang might say something like the minimum charge is 3.5 grains and the maximum charge is 5.5 grains. So if I made a little mistake and accidentally put 6 grains of Whiz Bang into a cartridge, I might have created a potential bomb. With Black Powder, a grain or two more or less is not all that important. As I said, with my standard 45 Colt load under a 250 grain bullet, I put in 2.2CCs of Schuetzen which weighs out to about 33.5 grains. An accidental overcharge of a couple of grains of Black Powder will not make much difference at all. If you want to be shooting long range single shot rifles for extreme accuracy, a couple of grains might make a slight difference in keeping the group small, but we always say you cannot stuff enough Black Powder into a modern cartridge firearm in good mechanical condition to blow it up.

Be safe, no smoking around Black Powder (duh) and that's pretty much it.

that’s something I need to wrap my head around. 1-2 gains over anything smokeless and it a BIG issue.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Howdy Again

With a Cap & Ball revolver you ram the ball in and should feel a 'crunch' as the ball compresses the powder a little bit. Be sure to use a ball which is slightly oversized, so a thin ring of lead is shaved off as the ball is seated. This forms the seal in the chamber. Always use pure lead balls in a C&B revolver, anything harder and you may damage the screw the loading lever pivots on as you ram the ball home.

When loading cartridges with Black Powder, I line up the bullet with the crimp groove where it will wind up when the bullet is seated.






Then I make a little 'ruler' with a stick, with a line drawn measuring off the distance between the crimp groove and the base of the bullet.






Pardon the long fingernails, my wife was helping out when I took this photo. I only shoot real Black Powder. I like to compress it between 1/16" and 1/8" when the bullet is seated. In this photo, my wife is holding the little 'ruler' with the mark even with the case mouth. This happens to be a 45 Colt case. Holding the measure like this, I pour in enough powder so that the bottom of the little 'ruler' is buried between 1/16" to 1/8" in powder. That will be the correct amount of powder for that particular cartridge and that particular bullet. I pour out the powder and set a powder measure to portion out that exact amount of powder. If you want to pour in enough of a sub so that the powder just touches the base of the bullet, you can still use the little ruler, just don't bury it, pour in just enough powder to come to the bottom of the ruler. Hint: this is not rocket science. If you have a tiny amount of compression with one of the subs, it really does not matter too much.






Note: if a different bullet is going to be used, with a different amount which protrudes into the case, the process will need to be repeated for the new bullet.



There are lots of ways to portion out Black Powder. These are plastic dippers sold by Lee Precision. The set includes 15 dippers in graduated sizes. You will note that the Lee dippers are labeled in Cubic Centimeters (CCs) which is a valid measure of volume. The same as a milliliter, just an older name. You can also make up custom dippers from empty brass and solder on a brass wire for a handle. The point is, once you have decided how much powder to use for the particular cartridge, you select the dipper which best portions out the amount you have decided on.






If I am only loading a few cartridges, I will dip the powder out of a mug, using a funnel to pour it into each case. The correct way to do this is to use the dipper like an ice cream scoop and scoop up a heaping dipper full of powder. Then you use a stiff piece of card to scrape off the excess back into the mug. This way you will get a consistent load every time you scoop. It is also important to scoop out the powder with a consistent amount of force each time, to help keep your loads consistent.






I usually load 200 rounds at a time, so I usually load my Black Powder cartridges on a Hornady Lock and Load progressive press. The press on the left has an aluminum Black Powder Measure installed on it specifically for loading Black Powder cartridges.






Here is a batch of Black Powder 45 Colt being loaded on my Hornady press.






The Lyman Black Powder measure uses the same rotors to measure out the powder as a standard old Lyman #55 powder measure. I pickup old Lyman powder measures on the white elephant table at gunshows and canbabalize them for the rotors.






Each rotor is set for the standard amount of powder I use with the cartridges I load with Black Powder. I throw the same amount of powder for both 45 Colt and 44-40, which is what this rotor is set for.

this is all up my alley! Skewer sticks, Lee dipper set, mugs, everything I have. This all make me want to rig up my Lee Loader for Black Powder and load on the camp
site!

Thanks again ! I know I’ll have more questions, but for now. Caps, Black Powder, Lyman Aluminum drop!

 

[Mark_Mark]

Personally I don't find Pyrodex any more corrosive than black. You would eventually learn when it's touching by feel. I wouldn't want a powder that finicky. T7 may be just 10% hotter. Like I say I never used it but it seems like it used to be advertised that way. I never could see paying the price for it.

does Pyrodex and T7 store like BP or smokless. I’ll pick up some just to have