different in Subs & Real BP

[ClemBert]

what the real difference between Substitutes like triple-7 and say Swiss?

new to BP, I know BP is hard to find locally. But triple-7 is everywhere. I’m more of a LGS with Cash kidda guy, so I’ll wait for BP to arrive locally.

Anyways, what the real difference?

I haven't shot 777 in awhile but here is what I retained:

1. Don't compress it like you would BP as compressing it will cause it not to burn completely and will give erratic results.
2. It's advertised as 15% "more powerful" than BP so reduce your load accordingly.
3. The residue is kind of a gray greasy film. I can't say this it acts as a lubricant but to me it was kind of greasy.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I haven't shot 777 in awhile but here is what I retained:

1. Don't compress it like you would BP as compressing it will cause it not to burn completely and will give erratic results.
2. It's advertised as 15% "more powerful" than BP so reduce your load accordingly.
3. The residue is kind of a gray greasy film. I can't say this it acts as a lubricant but to me it was kind of greasy.

I hear too many funny things about 777,
I’ll stick with Pyrodex

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

@Mark_Mark If i was unable to obtain any Black id shoot pyrodex. I have some 3 or 4 pounds of 777 that i purchased hoping to like it but i didnt so they are now in my "powder reserves". I have never shot any american pioneer powder but i hear good things, it is available now and known as shooters world Black. American Pioneer Powder has been known as Jim shockeys gold, APP, Black MZ and now known as Shooters World Black

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Is that a howdah double?

No, that would be this. .62" Jeager, made by Birddog6 of Alabama. I call her "Brown Rosie, Rose of Alabama". Or just Rosie.

 

[hawg]

@Mark_Mark If i was unable to obtain any Black id shoot pyrodex. I have some 3 or 4 pounds of 777 that i purchased hoping to like it but i didnt so they are now in my "powder reserves". I have never shot any american pioneer powder but i hear good things, it is available now and known as shooters world Black. American Pioneer Powder has been known as Jim shockeys gold, APP, Black MZ and now known as Shooters World Black

I've never used any sub other than Pyrodex. I have seen T7 in stores but at the time it was twice the price of Pyrodex. I haven't seen any for sale locally in a long time. It's hard enough finding Pyrodex since primitive weapons season here no longer requires Muzzleloaders or bp. Simply put Pyrodex works. Nuff said.

 

[gtrgy888]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/uberti-1860-army-44-ballistics.907396/

My testing indicates 777 can be as much as 25% hotter than premium black powder. Enough to strain guns and encourage loading down.

 

[dave951]

Of the subs, the only one I'd shoot is T7. Yes, it is a bit "hotter" than premium black powder but since I buy black powder in case quantities for competition, I don't foresee it being used hardly ever in my stuff.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Of the subs, the only one I'd shoot is T7.

Why? Do tell...

 

[dave951]

Why? Do tell...

After bad experience with Pyrodex, I swore off of any and all subs and went back to the holy black. In our work with kids, the camp supplied T7 to use in their guns. It seems to run ok although maybe a bit sensitive to loading compression. There were some ignition issues but they went away when we went back to the holy black in all the guns. We don't use T7 in the muskets or our personal round ball guns and forget flintlocks.

 

[drobs]

what the real difference between Substitutes like triple-7 and say Swiss?

new to BP, I know BP is hard to find locally. But triple-7 is everywhere. I’m more of a LGS with Cash kidda guy, so I’ll wait for BP to arrive locally.

Anyways, what the real difference?

Going back to the opening post. Are you primarily looking at BP and Subs for cartridge reloading?

The reason I ask is, lots of Cap & Ball revolver newbies will delay their shooting of their guns hoping to find real black powder. One of the things I learned about Cap & Ball pistol shooting is any black powder or substitute will work in a cap & ball revolver. If all you can find locally is T7 buy it and enjoy your BP revolver.

The major rule on Black Powder Firearms, C&B Revolvers, and muzzle loaders in general is don't use smokeless powder.

You being a reloader, if you don't have a cap & ball revolver, you ought to get one. They are a ton of fun to shoot. Plus they come with their own reloading press mounted under the barrel.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Going back to the opening post. Are you primarily looking at BP and Subs for cartridge reloading?

The reason I ask is, lots of Cap & Ball revolver newbies will delay their shooting of their guns hoping to find real black powder. One of the things I learned about Cap & Ball pistol shooting is any black powder or substitute will work in a cap & ball revolver. If all you can find locally is T7 buy it and enjoy your BP revolver.

The major rule on Black Powder Firearms, C&B Revolvers, and muzzle loaders in general is don't use smokeless powder.

You being a reloader, if you don't have a cap & ball revolver, you ought to get one. They are a ton of fun to shoot. Plus they come with their own reloading press mounted under the barrel.

thanks! that was my idea. Sub for cap & ball and Black for cartridges

only thing I really need is range time

 

[mladen]

I started questioning the air gap deal when I got my 1863 Sharps. Because of the way the breech block is made you can't possibly have no air gap. Mine held 110 grains of loose powder with a ringtail bullet. The factory recommended charge was 80 grains. Now the powder would touch the bullet but the top 1/3 or so of the chamber was nothing but air. I have seen videos of people loading 40-50 grains and bumping the butt on the ground to get as much powder next to the breech block as they could. That left a substantial air gap between powder and bullet but they suffered no ill effects.

Use biggest granulation and you will fill the chamber with less powder make paper cartridge.

 

[hawg]

I did make paper cartridges with 80 grains of powder and a 480 grain ringtail bullet but that didn't eliminate air gap.

 

[mladen]

I did make paper cartridges with 80 grains of powder and a 480 grain ringtail bullet but that didn't eliminate air gap.

View attachment 1100177

I make paper cartridges with 60 grains by weight and didn't have air gap but i use bigger granulation home made powder i thing my cartridge is longer than your's bullet is almost the same same

 

[mladen]

I did make paper cartridges with 80 grains of powder and a 480 grain ringtail bullet but that didn't eliminate air gap.

View attachment 1100177

Her you can see how the cartridge fill the chamber

Shooting with Sharps 1859,.54 cal. and authentic model paper cartridges. www.blackpowder-bg.com - YouTube

 

[hawg]

I make paper cartridges with 60 grains by weight and didn't have air gap but i use bigger granulation home made powder i thing my cartridge is longer than your's bullet is almost the same

I said 480 grains but they were actually 490. 80 grains of Swiss 2F. The fold on the tail of the cartridge came to the edge of the chamber. Very little powder was lost when the tail was cut off, just a few particles.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Use biggest granulation and you will fill the chamber with less powder make paper cartridge.View attachment 1100174

that looks BAD ARS!!!! So Cool! BP is definitely going to be the hot new hobby of the shooting world . Cool Gun & lots of smoke

 

[mladen]

I said 480 grains but they were actually 490. 80 grains of Swiss 2F. The fold on the tail of the cartridge came to the edge of the chamber. Very little powder was lost when the tail was cut off, just a few particles.

View attachment 1100204

So i thing you didn't have any air gap is just fine i think it should be like that. I use little bigger granulation home made is light than Swiss and 60 grain by weight maybe by volume is also 80 \ 90 grains

 

[hawg]

So i thing you didn't have any air gap is just fine i think it should be like that. I use little bigger granulation home made is light than Swiss and 60 grain by weight maybe by volume is also 80 \ 90 grains

Well I shot a lot of loose powder before I started making cartridges. Big ol honkin air gap. The pamphlet that came with it said the recommended charge was 80 grains of loose powder. I tried 80, 90 and 100 and 80 worked best. Actually 100 was a tad more accurate but it had more flash from the breech than I liked.

 

[mladen]

Well I shot a lot of loose powder before I started making cartridges. Big ol honkin air gap. The pamphlet that came with it said the recommended charge was 80 grains of loose powder. I tried 80, 90 and 100 and 80 worked best. Actually 100 was a tad more accurate but it had more flash from the breech than I liked.

If is small granulation need more powder for fill the chamber if is biggest grain less powder by weight i mean. For me to match powder its not so good

 

[hawg]

This is the bullet I used.



And the mold.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Another's option you have to get around fooling with substitutes or hunting for powder is making your own black powder. The three ingredients can be sent to your house with no hazmat fees. The rest of the tools needed can be found at harbor freight.

 

[hawg]

I don't think harbor freight sells puck presses.

 

[Appalachiannative]

I don't think harbor freight sells puck presses.

No but you can find those online or Jerry rig your own. they sell cheap hydraulic presses the part they don't have is the pucking dye. You can just mash it with your hands and run it through a screen when it's wet enough to be like play dough then dry it out. My powder isn't as good as the factory stuff but if you just want to shoot for fun it works fine