disarmed by LEOs

[bodhi]

So, I'm watching this old episode of Cops. Have a segment about a motel manager who, when two men (scary looking, must be said) run into the office waving sticks and yelling profanity, draws a gun and tells them to leave. They get more angry and aggressive, so he fires a shot in the air. They run and somebody calls the cops.

The cops come. They roll up on the two men who say: "We're staying at this motel. A fight broke out outside our room. We come out, get attacked by some of the guys fighting, and then run away. We come back a little later and are locked out of our room. We go to the office to get a key. First, we round a corner and some maniac swings a golf club at us. [Turns out it's the motel owner, freaked out after the fight.] We then go to the office, and the manic night manager shoots at us. Sure, we had sticks, we were upset: we'd been assaulted. But he shot at us!"

Manager says, "Hey, these guys come in swearing, swinging sticks, I think they're here to rob me and am afraid for me life."

So the cops say: Big misunderstanding, glad no one was hurt. We'll keep your gun for everyone's safety. These guys have paid for their room, so let them back in. Cops leave.

An hour later a police cruiser sees a car pull up to the same motel. Someone comes out of a room and gets what looks like a gun out of the trunk. Car leaves. Call for backup, pull car over. Turns out it's friends of the same two guys as before, delivering them a .38 snubby. It looks like they were going to visit the motel manager again and do him violence. Of course, the police just disarmed the manager, which the bad guys know. If the cops hadn't seen this handoff taking place . . .

This is not meant to be anti-LEO in any way. But what do we learn from this? Don't let the police take your guns? Did manager have a choice? Always have another gun handy? LIE if the cops ask if you have another gun handy? I hope the cops gave him his gun back!

 

[JWarren]

But what do we learn from this? Don't let the police take your guns? Did manager have a choice? Always have another gun handy? LIE if the cops ask if you have another gun handy? I hope the cops gave him his gun back!

Put me in the "Have another gun" column.

The issue with the handgun can (and WILL -- if it were me) be dealt with the following day.

No sense in giving the authorities a reason to believe you are a threat to anyone in an already stressed situation.

Moral of the story: Always have a Plan "B."


-- John

 

[GhostlyKarliion]

So the cops say: Big misunderstanding, glad no one was hurt. We'll keep your gun for everyone's safety. These guys have paid for their room, so let them back in. Cops leave.

hold the phone, stop the presses, call the mayor, call the NRA, GOA, JFPO, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Bill O'Reily, the Chielf of Police, 911, and anyone else you can think of, those cops should be arrested and thrown in jail for their illegal behivour.

and welcome to the fourms

 

[Wheeler44]

Give up your handgun, plan to get it back tomorrow, don't mention the shotgun under the counter.

 

[Mainsail]

That could be fun game! Watch Cops and every time they violate someone’s civil rights you have to take a shot of Jack Daniels.

EDIT: I just happen to be watching an old re-run of the show and they just searched a car without a warrant or cause.

 

[Andrewsky]

That could be fun game! Watch Cops and every time they violate someone’s civil rights you have to take a shot of Jack Daniels.

EDIT: I just happen to be watching an old re-run of the show and they just searched a car without a warrant or cause.

Last time I did that I woke up at 1:30 in the morning and spewed vomit all over my pillow.

Needless to say I haven't had a drink since and never will.

 

[Treo]

C.o.p.s

Watching cops is like viewing the other teams game tapes. To all that are saying "Oh, let them take the gun. Deal W/ it tomorrow." I don't know if I could do it. I'd be almost positive I'd never see the gun again. I think my response would be some thing along the lines of " You want to deprive me of Life, Liberty or property W/out due process of law? Ok officer why don't you call your supervisor while I call my lawyer & we'll just see if we can get this straightened out. " In Colorado the cop can dis-arm you WHILE he's dealing W/ you but he is required to return it ( unless he arrests you) at the conclusion of the interaction.

 

[1911Tuner]

We'll keep your gun because we're the only ones who are trained/qualified to handle guns.

There! Fixed it.

 

[BigBadJohn]

I see this turning into a cop bashing fest.

The guy's first mistake was shooting into the air.:banghead:

 

[hankdatank1362]

I've had the priveledge of watching COPS.

With cops.

I've never seen so many grown men cringe.

"Oooohh! What the hell is he thinking!?!?!?! You can't just ________ (fill in the constitutional violation) !!!

 

[nerfsrule2]

Always have a plan B or C or.. (Bushmaster or Colt or...)

 

[Treo]

QUOTE " I see this turning into a cop bashing fest"

I knew somebody was going to say it I just didn't know how long it was gonna take

 

[luzyfuerza]

Let's see if I got this right...a man was threatened with a deadly weapon, a gun was drawn, a shot was fired. This is not a "no-harm-no-foul" situation, at least not in my part of the world. Somebody's got to go to jail!

Is this what happens when society becomes accustomed to assaults, threats, and physical violence as a normal, accepted part of existence?

 

[bsf]

When someone "fires a shot in the air" they have just set them self up for trouble, and I am not going to be too concerned about whether their gun was confiscated. If the threat is serious enough to pull the trigger, I expect death to result immediately. If firing was justified, there should have been two corpses. Dead guys cannot come back to kill you.

I agree w/ everyone who advocates having more than one personal defense firearm.

ETA
I sound harsh, but you have to know that firing "warning shots" is not a good idea. This is just a recognition of legal reality.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

The manager's choices were probably something like this:

A: Give up the handgun for now

B: Go to jail for discharging a firearm in an occupied structure. (If you're defending yourself, that's one thing. Firing errant rounds to intimidate an opponent is another)

Not saying it's right, just that he probably didn't have much choice in the matter. Keep in mind also the two polar-opposite stories that were given by the parties involved. Manager says guys came in after him, guys say they went in peacefully and were attacked by the manager. The truth lies somewhere in between, with neither side being totally innocent in the matter. One thing I've learned in police work is that there are very few true victims.

COPS is not a good example of well-done police work, anyway.

I see this turning into a cop bashing fest.

I predict major cop-bashing before post #30

 

[The_woodsman]

Shooting into the air is uncalled for. So is chasing guests with golf clubs. Stupid humans shouldn't have guns. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the hotel employee.

If the guy was scared for his life, he should have dialed 911 and held the gun on the two men until the cops came. If a shot was fired, it should have only been fired at an opponent in a situation where the opponent was obviously about to do harm to the employee.

This should be a no brainer for anyone on this board who has taken a concealed pistol course, but apparently there are some here who haven't, or they seriously need a review.

C.O.P.S. is a TV show that often shows the worst in law enforcement. I'd say more than half of their shows exhibits poor behavior on the part of the l.e.o.s. Some of those folks need a serious break if not a permanent one.

 

[briney11]

I saw an episode where an old lady called the cops because someone tried to break in. Cop comes around the corner on foot just as she fires a shot(not at cop) cops freaks a little but then checks out the yard and garage to make sure there are no BG's. Goes into her house, reloads her revolver for her and puts in back by her bed. He tells her that he's glad she has a gun to protect herself but in the future, only use it inside the house because cops might return fire.

 

[Treo]

C.O.P.S & Cop Bashing

QUOTE: COPS is not a good example of well-done police work, anyway

QUOTE: C.OP.S. is a TV show that often shows the worst in law enforcement.

The problem that I have W/ these statements ( I agree W/both BTW) is that they completely discount the fact that everything you see on C.O.P.S is done W/ the full knowledge by the officer that he is being filmed. A lot of times ( mostly in the shows from Fla.) the cop will look RIGHT at the camera and DETAIL exactly how he/she is about to violate somebody's rights.

The point I'm making is this, the cops don't think there's anything wrong W/ their behavior or they wouldn't be doing it in front of the camera. And I am certain that every single department every shown on C.O.P.S got the standard " You had better be on your best behavior " lecture before the cameras even started rolling.

If the majority of police departments thought C.O.P.S showed cops in a negative light the show wouldn't have found over 10 years worth of police departments to film.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

the cop will look RIGHT at the camera and DETAIL exactly how he/she is about to violate somebody's rights.

That's a pretty big assumption. I've never seen anybody look into the camera and say "I'm gonna violate this guy's rights by...". Determining whether or not the act was legal or not takes months of legal wrangling and deliberation by highly-educated and experienced judges.

It took hours upon seemingly endless hours of academy instruction on search and seizure law before I really started to understand it. Often times you really are splitting hairs and it's not always perfectly clear on the street. That's why everything is reviewed by the above-mentioned judges. Surely, you can't watch TV and determine whether it was legal or not.

The show doesn't put police in a negative light, so much. It's kind of like when you know a lot about guns and then you watch a gun movie. You catch all of the dumb stuff real easy while the "average" person just blows right by it. Same with COPS. Police watch it pick up on every little mistake the officer makes. If they turn their back on a subject, expose their pistol side to them, ask leading questions, make some stupid crack, etc., all the police watching just roll their eyes while the general public doesn't catch it.

Also, many COPS episodes I've seen are re-runs that were filmed, from what I can see, in the early 90's or late 80's. Tactics and training have changed a lot since then. I remember an episode that showed an officer wearing a cross-draw holster. ***??? Why did anybody ever think that was a good idea???

 

[1911Tuner]

Goes into her house, reloads her revolver for her and puts in back by her bed. He tells her that he's glad she has a gun to protect herself but in the future, only use it inside the house because cops might return fire.

I remember that show! The cop was pretty cool, and seemed to be squared away. Kudos on that one.

 

[Treo]

QUOTE: That's a pretty big assumption. I've never seen anybody look into the camera and say "I'm gonna violate this guy's rights by..."

The episode that comes immediately to mind was filmed in Dade / Broward county Fla. The cop pulled in behind a SUV and stated that the only reason he had any interest in the car was because it was driving through a high drug area. Now even though that probably wasn't bad in and of itself it bothers me that a cop can decide I'm a suspect even if I'm not doing any thing illegal. But what really bothered me is that the cop told the camera man " I don't really have a ( legitimate) reason to pull this guy over but I'm going to make one up & see if I can talk him into a vehicle search" The cop then actually said to the camera guy " We call this a pretext stop" I also saw a show from Vegas where they stopped the guy for having blue back lights on his rims, they said that under Nevada law blue lights is immpersonating an officer now come on I'm gonna pull over for someone W/ blue lights on his RIMS?

ETA Maybe it WASN'T an actuall violation , just like soberiety / vehicle search check points aren't ACTUALL violations. but IM (non legal ) O if you have to make up a reason to stop me so that you can INTIMIDATE me into allowing a search , then you shouldn't be able to especially when my only crime was driving through a bad part of town.

A lot of people are making these complaints against a LOT of cops across the country are we ALL just paranoid disgruntled citizens?

 

[romma]

I not only see certain COPS on the show violate rights, but at the same time I also many citizens (criminals though some are on the show) have absolutely no clue about their rights at all...
A good many of these people would have walked or drove away from many of these situations.

Which leads me to this conclusion,,, I want to see some of the edited stops where people know there rights, and the COPS that attempt to violate those rights, stomp off in a fury!

You know they are hidden in a vault somewhere.

I know many officers are respectful of rights, but many more are adept at catching people off guard, and tactfully getting what they want out of people.

 

[B.D. Turner]

The police did an illegal seizure of the firearm.

 

[bodhi]

One thing this has prompted me to do is look into seizure laws for my state. But, I suspect that if the cop says, "We need to take your gun tonight," whether legal or not, there is nothing you can do. Though if one could point out a law allowing you to retain it, it might make a difference. Might.

I agree with the comment that the difference in LEO procedure and conduct between the episodes filmed 20 years ago and those done recently is pretty dramatic. Many of us probably look hard for "four laws" violations ("get your finger off the trigger!" or "quit pointing that shotgun at your partner's back!"). Lots of em in early shows. I remember one where a cop had his 1911 right in a guy's face, yelling at him, finger on trigger, which made ME nervous . . . until I noticed the hammer wasn't cocked!

I also loved the way all those early narcotics cops used to Mexican carry. John Brunell would storm in with pistol in hand, take the BGs down, and then just tuck it into his pants in the small of his back while cuffing them. Buy that man a holster!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

There are guns subject to confiscation and the ones that NO ONE but you know about.