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Mostly Positive LEO encounter

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by funkerbunny, Aug 13, 2008.

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  1. funkerbunny

    funkerbunny Member

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    Monday we where driving back from a computer security convention in Las Vegas through Eagle County, Colorado when we noticed two sheriff's vehicles on the highway. One passed us and the other started riding our tail. Next thing I notice is the first officer pulls someone over and moments later my girlfriend pulls over.

    The officer comes over and asks for license/registration and all that which my honey produces and we wait for the officer to check everything. At this point
    I'm sure everything is fine, but moments later the officer reappears and asks my honey to step out of the car.
    Then another officer appears and informs us they are out there looking for people smuggling large amounts of drugs, illegal guns, hand grenades etc, but not personal amounts of drugs so if we have any we should tell him now.

    Both my friend Tom and I tell him no, we do not have anything illegal and he asks again, adding that they will find "The stuff". After reiterating that we do not have anything illegal the officer looks at me and asks if I'm the NRA member (we had a NRA bumper sticker on the back of the car). I answer that yes I am and leave it at that. The cop then informs us that even though my girlfriend refused a search they will be searching because they "smelled pot on her registration papers"

    So we get out of the car, and watch for a good hour and a half as they run a drug dog through the car, go through all our bags eventually finding our trunk gun (a topper 158 shotgun), a bunch of 7.62x54r cases and a can of OC spray. They inspect the shotgun for a bit, ask me what kind of gun the 7.62x54r cases are from and eventually put our stuff back in the car.

    The first cop (an older gentleman who was actually pretty friendly) comes over and gives back our licenses then turns to me and the following conversation starts:
    Cop: So what do you need the shotgun for on a roadtrip to vegas ?
    Me: Well its a long trip, I've seen alot of horror movies and well honestly officer I worry about Zombies.
    Cop: (smiling) I can Understand that
    The officers than bid us farewell and let us leave (with our shotgun!)

    The only thing that bothers me is why would they say they smelled pot on the registration papers? None of us smoke pot and I'm left with the feeling that they lied so they could search the car. (is this common when you refuse a search?) Anyways, other than delaying us a few hours, things worked out pretty well I think.
     
  2. PTK

    PTK Member

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    That's very rare here in Colorado. I've had nothing but entirely positive encounters with police thus far.

    They will make up PC if you look suspicious, it's profiling, not illegal, valid police tactic. Unfortunately, the laws being the way they are the police sometimes must do such things.
     
  3. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

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    Sounds like a ruse to search the car. Obviously, they couldn't "smell pot on her registration papers" since neither of you smoke it (taking you at your word that you don't). Even so, that doesn't sound to me like reasonable cause to search, although IANAL.

    Mostly positive, I don't think so.
     
  4. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I'm sorry, if indeed they lied for the search, that's a crime and a civil tort.

    I'm one of the few people I know who've never smoked marijuana. You accuse me of using drugs and use that as an excuse for a warrantless search and you're going to have a VERY bad year. I would NEVER let this go.
     
  5. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    Hardly positive.

    Tell me you are filing a complaint at the very least for that.

    As an aside, when cops are nice and make small talk, they are looking for a reason to bust you. Don't talk to them.

    If I was in that position, I would be a broken record.

    "Am I free to go?"
    "I do not consent to this search."

    Of course, before it was over I would have all their info. Even if I couldn't sue them until they were poor and on the street, I would file a formal complaint. Supposedly any complaints look bad when it comes to review. Might cost him a promotion/pay raise later.

    And now, the JBT sympathizers will come along and tell about how awful I am, and how they are good guys and deserve your cooperation, and other further encourage Quisling like actions towards our masters.

    Like Deanimator, I never have done drugs in my life. I think the reason it would tick me off so bad is they are basically slandering me, saying I either smoke pot, or associate with the type that do.
     
  6. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Wouldn't it funny if my attorney got the cop on the stand and asked HIM under oath if HE had ever used drugs? "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Officer Smedlap, HIMSELF an ADMITTED DRUG USER, has falsely accused my client of using illegal drugs!"
     
  7. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    That would be quite comical Dean.
     
  8. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    So the officer smelled pot on the papers, but the dog didn't hit on anything???
     
  9. Fisherman_48768

    Fisherman_48768 Member

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    That happens when your dealing with a super cop that hasn't changed his shorts lately. And they wonder why the people have so little faith in them doughnut munchers.
     
  10. emb

    emb Member

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    I would not call this a positive encounter either. It's a violation of your civil and constitutional rights.

    The police had no right to stop you or detain you. The PC was simply manufactured and pretexual.

    When LEOs become LEOs they take an oath to uphold the rule of the constitution, including your civil rights. You need to report this and take action.

    Here in Florida several years ago, an agency had an entire unit of rogue drug enforcement agents. All are or were doing federal time based upon one officer's courage to come forward. When he did what was uncovered was simply astounding!

    Unfortunately, I do not automatically trust law enforcement officers. You never know what you are dealing with. I do, however, give them the benefit of doubt. Be polite and accommodating, but say as little as possible. You don't need them manufacturing the charges.

    Also, never, ever consent to a search-even if you have nothing to hide. In the case I mentioned, the car was searched, even with a dog, but no drugs were found until a certain officer showed up.

    This stuff really happened and the corruption did not stop with drug busts. Some officers justify this behavior, but it is wrong, and you should take action anytime you confront it.

    Most of my encounters with LEOs have been very positive, and I still have a great deal of respect for what they do and have to put up with. But in our country the ends does not justify the means.

    One man can and will make a difference. It did in our county. Twelve officers were indicted and tried for civil rights violations and related state crimes. 5 or 6 of them did 2-3 years in various federal pens.
     
  11. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Bad stop. Bad search. No PC. Blatant lying by LEO.

    Formal complaint would be very appropriate.


    "JBT sympathizers"????

    Wow, that's wayyyy out there. I don't see the purpose of a strawman argument in this case. It's purposeless. It's pretty clear that the reported LEOs overstepped their bounds.

    I guess we'll see if any "JBT sympathizers" or "Quislings" follow on with their subservient encouragement. If they do, you will be right. If not, well, then...I guess you'd be wrong. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Dave P

    Dave P Member

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    "Anyways, other than delaying us a few hours, things worked out pretty well I think."

    Well FB, I think you need to raise your level of expectation, and also educate yourself on your rights and also on tricks played by those in authoritarian positions.

    "so if we have any we should tell him now. " Never incriminate yourself! If they didn't care about small amounts, then they wouldn't care about smelling pot on the papers.

    "older gentleman who was actually pretty friendly" You were falling for the Good Cop/Bad Cop trick.

    So they detained you, Tom and your Honey (I assume that was not Tom) for a few hours. As computer security geeks, what is your hourly time worth?? $25/hr x 2 hours x 3 people = $150
     
  13. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Colorado has become another police state :(
     
  14. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I get $30, sometimes more.

    I'd document what that cop did to the nth degree, then I'd make sure that every lawyer for three states in any direction knew his name. They'd "Brady" the living daylights out him. I wonder how a cop can get promoted if he can NEVER testify in a criminal case again, because NO prosecutor will put him on the stand?
     
  15. Vermont

    Vermont Member

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    Yeah, that doesn't sound like a positive encounter to me either. What would qualify as a negative encounter for you? Would you need to get arrested? Tazered? Shot?

    Why did they pull you over in the first place?
     
  16. Dope

    Dope Member

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    If that's a mostly positive encounter, what's a neutral or mostly negative encounter? When they taze your honey for no reason and she dies in the ditch? That's not so bad I guess, at least you survived, right? Damn.

    At least you can submit a complaint without suffering too much. If it were local cops you'd be harassed to no end, not worth the trouble :(

    Dope
     
  17. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Harass me. My lawyer works in the next office building over. I could use the money for guns... and a five bedroom house with a walk-in vault to put them in. Ohio's a one party consent state when it comes to audio recording. Juries eat that stuff up.
     
  18. JohnBlaze

    JohnBlaze Member

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    Yeah, it doesn't sound very positive to me either. I don't subscribe to the theory that most LEO's are bad, but I've met a crooked few. These seem to fit into that category.
     
  19. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I subscribe to the theory that you should reward the good ones and skin the bad ones alive, in a rhetorical fashion of course... mostly.
     
  20. Treo

    Treo member

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    Bad stop all the way around, that's been covered. If they smile while they rape you & say thank you when they're done, is it good sex?

    One thing that hasn't been covered is if they lied to you to search the car ( I personally think you'd have a hell of a time proving that) what makes you think they wouldn't plant drugs?

    This hasn't been covered enough. If I read the OP correctly the cops pulled you over specifically to search the car. You should have been totally en garde at that point. "Officer I do not consent to any searches" "Officer I do not wish to make any statement W/out my attorney present" "Officer can you please contact your supervisor and have him meet us here?" There's actually a really good video on youtube called "Busted, a citizens guide to surviving an encounter W/ the law" that deals specifically W/ this issue. it should be Mandatory viewing.

    Last point "We smelled weed on your paper work" as soon as you had that paper work back in your hand I'd have smelled it myself and said "It doesn't smell odd to me. May I have your business card & the name & contact information for you shift supervisor, as well as, the name and phone number for the County Sheriff please?"

    File a complaint
     
  21. ImARugerFan

    ImARugerFan Member

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    Illegal search of your vehicle is entirely negative, not mostly positive.
     
  22. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    I agree that the search was B.S. and trumped up. If he had smelled pot on the papers, the dog would have DEFINITELY smelled it in the car too.Since it didn't, he's obviously full of it (or I suppose just really has no ides the difference between the smell of pot, and ink/paper, which really doesn't make him any better).I have had the old "I can smell pot" thing used on me a few times in my younger days.Good excuse for them to search when you refuse, as nobody can really prove a smell one way or the other, so they know there really isn't anything you can do about it, and it give them PC due to bad court rulings about smell being legit PC.:barf:

    But, other than that, at least they were polite, and didn't decide to give a bunch of hassle over the gun when the fishing for pot didn't work out, so I suppose it could have been worse. Being held up for several hours stinks though, and doesn't seem necessary. How long does it take to run a dog thru a car? certainly not a few hours (more like a few minutes after the dog arrives, I know first hand).

    I'd rate it as "positive" only in that it could have taken longer, or they could have hassled over the gun, or been rude/mean/nasty on top of everything, but all in all, not what I'd call positive. Beats the time a Detroit city cop smacked me in the face though, so again, coulda been worse.
     
  23. dogmush

    dogmush Member

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    I've had many positive encounters with cops; What you described is definatly not one. Had it happened to me I would STILL be angry.

    Um wow, MAKING UP Probibale cause most definatly is illegal, and the laws are the way they are specificly to STOP police from doing such things.

    I think when the drug dog didn't hit on the car, I would have told officer Sniffy to get a lawyer. When the DOG doesn't smell drugs, no jury will ever belieive the officer did.


    I'd hate to need a tin-foil hat but are we really to the point where being polite while violating you and not hassling you for legal activities is good enough?
     
  24. abrink

    abrink Member

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    If this took place in VA the cop could be arrested and placed in jail for up to 10 years for knowingly violating your rights. Of course there's a possibility that he did smell something that had an odor somewhat close to the odor of pot but I don't believe that would be enough for him to search your vehicle.
     
  25. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    Oh, I agree. I wasnt trying to imply that at all. I was just pointing out that it could have been worse, as they could have kept digging, REALLY hassled the OP, or decided they needed to find something to cover thier butts over the bogus "I smell pot on the paper" search when the dog found nothing. That tends to prove they were full of it, and could make some cops twitchy enough to feel the need to find something to get you for as a cover for the failed search and bogus PC. I was just trying to reach for the "silver lining" in the OP's situation. I certainly agree that the whole thing was B.S., and should not happen, nor be tolerated, and wasnt teying to imply otherwise. Maybe just didnt phrase it all that well.
     
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