Mostly Positive LEO encounter

[XDKingslayer]

I was just curious as to why the OP said no to a search. I don't see why, if you have nothing to hide, you would say no to a search.

Because I don't want evidence planted in my vehicle.

Because I've got better things to do other than sitting in the hot sun on the side of the road while Barney Fife uses my vehicle for his fishing expedition.

Because I have better things to do than sitting on the side of the road for ANOTHER hour putting my crap back in my vehicle because Barney was mad he didn't find anything.

Because I don't want Barney fiddling with the gun I always have in my vehicle. Chances are he doesn't know the gun laws and doesn't know me keeping a loaded gun in my center console is perfectly legal.

Because it's my damn right to refuse a search.

 

[caseypj]

Because I don't want evidence planted in my vehicle.

Because I've got better things to do other than sitting in the hot sun on the side of the road while Barney Fife uses my vehicle for his fishing expedition.

Because I have better things to do than sitting on the side of the road for ANOTHER hour putting my crap back in my vehicle because Barney was mad he didn't find anything.

Because I don't want Barney fiddling with the gun I always have in my vehicle. Chances are he doesn't know the gun laws and doesn't know me keeping a loaded gun in my center console is perfectly legal.

Because it's my damn right to refuse a search.

I don't think you'll have any problems with the CCSO, I've never had an issue with them.

 

[Intune]

I was just curious as to why the OP said no to a search. I don't see why, if you have nothing to hide, you would say no to a search. I know some people believe it's an infringement of rights, but just saying yes and being on your way gets you out of their a lot faster than saying no.

It also eases the officer and makes him more all around friendly.

I don't give a rat's toochas if a consensual search will "ease" the officer and he/she better be professional & courteous. I don't need new "friends." They are public servants.

The cop then informs us that even though my girlfriend refused a search they will be searching because they "smelled pot on her registration papers"

Hmm...
"I know some people believe it's an infringement of rights..."
Ya think? Since when do cops ASK to do something when they have probable cause? They don't. They TELL you what they're gonna do. You don't have a choice in the matter.

This one smells worse than her papers supposedly did.

So we get out of the car, and watch for a good hour and a half...

"... just saying yes and being on your way gets you out of their a lot faster than saying no."

Hmm... Really? By what, say ten seconds or so? Like, say, the time it took for the officer to realize that she had a clue of her rights and that the papers he had been in possession of for x amount of time suddenly wafted of herb?

Please.

I would have driven straight to the police station, walked up to the desk and said, "I want to turn myself in."
"For what?'
"Smell these registration papers."
"Smells like paper."
"I'd like to speak to your Captain, Chief, watch commander, cleaning lady or whoever the heck is running this dog & pony show you call a department."

:banghead:

 

[Treo]

? Since when do cops ASK to do something when they have probable cause? They don't.

Not always, even if a cop has probable cause if he gets your consent to search the search is legal period.

I wouldn't give consent if they showed up W/ a warrant, I wouldn't resist, but I'd state very clearly that they were searching W/ out my consent.

while Barney Fife uses my vehicle for his fishing expedition.

No need to be rude, polite but firm.

Officer I do not consent to any searches.

Officer I do not wish to make any statement W/out my attorney present.

Not rude polite and firm

 

[funkerbunny]

Wow, alot of different views. As for why we refused a search there are numerous reasons such as 1: I really do not enjoy strangers handling my dirty undies 2: we had tons of sensitive electronics in the car (laptops, antennas, drives, etc) and 3: Well its our right to and we chose to exercise it.

Now for all you naysayers who for some reason think I'm twisting the truth I have to ask two things. First why would I lie about this in an attempt to make the officers look bad when I originally wrote this thread as a mostly positive experience ? And second, if they smelled pot on the papers why then did the dog not hit on the glovebox or anything else in our car ? (we can be sure they did not find drugs due to my not being in jail)

 

[Deanimator]

Dean, that's all pretty good advice that I certainly would take no umbrage at hearing if I were the investigating officer.

However, I would point out that, in a lot of jurisdictions, the officer who stops you may well be the ONLY officer on duty at that time in his department. Thus, he is the "field supervisor," per se. It's important to be aware that the officer is not just being obstinate when he says "that's not possible," when the driver asks for a field supervisor. Also, simply because the driver demands one and there is a field supervisor on duty, the supervisor is not duty bound to drop what he's doing to come render customer service to an irate citizen. He may actually have other serious duties that he can't leave.

If the officer is on the up and up, there should be no need for a supervisor. If he asks me if he can search, and I in turn say no, refuse to engage in small talk and he tells me I can go, I don't see a reason to pursue things, at least on the face of it.

On the other hand, if he tells me I'm not free to leave, or he searches without consent, RAS or PC, or threatens me with violence, "charges" me with something that's not a crime, etc., I'm going to request a supervisor, and for a number of reasons. First, he may be reluctant to commit criminal acts in front of a witness. Secondly, even if the supervisor doesn't do his duty, the more stories that have to match, the better. That supervisor may not be willing to fall on his own sword to protect the officer.

As as I noted, a lot of this is highly contextual. I'm going to stick with my rules of thumb, no matter where I get stopped. No searches, no probing conversations. Am I free to leave? In Chicago, I'm going to be hyper-vigilant because I know beyond a doubt that I HAVE to be. I'm not stopping anywhere there are no witnesses. I'm looking for places likely to be covered by video cameras. If I feel I need to and can do so without being physically harmed, I'll dial 911 to create a record of where and when things are happening. You might think this excessive, but if you do, you don't know the Chicago PD. I can't imagine this would be necessary with the Rocky River PD. I doubt it's necessary with your PD.

 

[Intune]

... if they smelled pot on the papers why then did the dog not hit on the glovebox or anything else in our car?

Um, 'cause dogs aren't devious or dishonest?

I imagine you were ready to get the heck outta there after this exemplary treatment on the side of the road but how in the world did you resist asking for Rex to sniff the papers?

 

[deadon]

"smelled pot on her registration papers"

Doesn't sound like he needed dogs if he can smell pot on the registration papers.

 

[Mike Franklin]

I'm trying to remember a positive post about any LAOs on this site?
I do remember many posts asking how the Law can be circumvinted.
I do recall a post about how people who report crimes are 'snitches'.
I do recall people being told to violate the Law.
I do constantly read about supposed abuses by LEOs, which don't result in complaints.


Doesn't say much for this forum.

 

[Intune]

Doesn't say much for this forum.

Yet your post speaks volumes.

Oleg & the Mods run a tight ship, PARTICULARLY when there is a hint or suggestion of breaking a law. ANY LAW. Please, kind Sir, cite some examples.

Would you care to comment regarding the original post & how well the stop was conducted? From either viewpoint?

 

[Deanimator]

I'm trying to remember a positive post about any LAOs on this site?
I do remember many posts asking how the Law can be circumvinted.
I do recall a post about how people who report crimes are 'snitches'.
I do recall people being told to violate the Law.
I do constantly read about supposed abuses by LEOs, which don't result in complaints.


Doesn't say much for this forum.

Either you aren't looking closely, or you're being less than candid.

I'm frequently critical of police. I've praised the Berea, Ohio police on multiple occasions. Why? Because for the most part they don't steal, don't torture suspects, don't kidnap people, don't commit home invasions, don't beat up women, and will actually do things they're not required to do in order to uphold the public trust.

Those are things I would NEVER say about the Chicago Police Department, simply because I'd be lying if I did.

I'm willing to tell the truth about a department of which people can be proud. Are you willing to tell the truth about departments which mostly bring shame to their communities?

 

[Intune]

I do constantly read about supposed abuses by LEOs, which don't result in complaints.

MF, please put yourself in the OP's place for that stop in your brand-new 100% non-dope-tainted car and the officer pulls this on you. Would you lodge a formal complaint? How should she go about doing it?

Thanks for the positive help on behalf of all law-abiding LEO's & the public they serve.

 

[The Tourist]

This debate seems to be breaking down into two distinct sides.

One side, they will use their enumerated rights even if means bracelets from Barney Fife. The Framers faced nooses, don't track mud on their sacrifices.

The other side doesn't want to be bothered. "Hey, I've got a cricket match about two-ish and Buffy needs her nails done..."

If half of this crap would have happened to me I'd be calling the City County Building and my attorney.

Remember, the arrest means nothing. It only means bracelets, a ride in a Crown Victoria, fingerprinting (they use those new computer thingies, it's really cool), a call to your wife, a lousy breakfast and a few hands of gin rummy with a bunch of townie idiots.

It's the trial that's important. And something like this will never get past the DA.

Keep your mouth shut the entire time. The first words to the DA are, "Fruits of the poison tree." Then tell him about the civil hearing and your plans for the new house.

 

[Treo]

do remember many posts asking how the Law can be circumvinted.

I've seen those threads too, they get locked QUICK

I do recall a post about how people who report crimes are 'snitches'.

I'd like to see a cite please

I do recall people being told to violate the Law

Can't argue W/ that one it happens every time we get a " should I carry at XYZ " thread

 

[Rugerlvr]

...and this thread seems to be degenerating into a bunch of meta-topic argument.

Let's get it back on topic. If not, let's zip it.

 

[The Tourist]

Oh, I forgot to add one thing. Never even speak to a mall ninja. I'd talk to a townie first.

They don't know much about the law. They cannot touch you. They cannot detain you. Pretend they are invisible. Until they touch you.

They have as much power as my Aunt Clara.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Treo,
The "snichtes" thread was closed for being OT, and there were references made to encourage the reporting of a crime. It is such a tacky word and IIRC "doin the right thing" was suggested to replace it.

I have been stopped and asked "any drugs or guns in the vehicle" I answered "NO!" though there were guns and drugs in the car. I didn't want to suffer the loss of my valuable time at the hands of a bored policeman. Both guns and drugs were legally held so why waste our time ? He did let me drive away.....

Tourista, aren't they "professionals" too, Just not "as professional".

 

[Treo]

Tourista, aren't they "professionals" too, Just not "as professional".

Pay no attention to the man behind the computer.

The Tourist got into it w/ a security guard at a mall and ended up taking a bath in the mall fountain. Thats why he takes every oppurtunity he can to hide behind his computer and snipe at them now.

 

[FLA2760]

Were you speeding, make a lane change without a directional, following too close? Drift from your lane?Window tint? What I am getting at is why were you stopped in the first place? Were you profiled? The profiling can be based on many things including out of state tags. I agree this was a bad stop and the only good is that you were not arrested. I am pro LEO but there are bad ones out there too.

 

[funkerbunny]

FLA2760:
Well the original reason for pulling us over is my girlfriend didnt pull into the far lane when we passed the second cop who had pulled someone else over (she would have but the first cop had us boxed in at that point so we couldnt get out of the lane we were in.

 

[The Tourist]

ended up taking a bath in the mall fountain

Then why is his patch sewn to my colors?

All mall ninjas are posers. Otherwise they would still be in the police academy.

 

[Old Dog]

Because I don't want evidence planted in my vehicle.

Oh, yeah ... I always worry about that, too. It's a well known internet fact that all traffic cops, deputy sheriffs and state troopers always keep some spare dope or stolen guns on them just to plant in the vehicles of those unfortunates they pull over. Geez, how else are cops gonna get any entertainment on the job and create hours and hours of stupid paperwork to do?

Because I've got better things to do other than sitting in the hot sun on the side of the road while Barney Fife uses my vehicle for his fishing expedition.

Yep, me too, that's why I actually obey traffic laws so as to avoid getting pulled over by those rogue traffic cops. 'Course, then we got them Florida cops who create reasons to pull law-abiding folk over ...

Because I have better things to do than sitting on the side of the road for ANOTHER hour putting my crap back in my vehicle because Barney was mad he didn't find anything.

Another well known internet fact: LEOs really, really hate it when they don't find any "evidence" and thus end up not having to do hours of paperwork at the end of their shift ... that's just so annoying ...

Because I don't want Barney fiddling with the gun I always have in my vehicle. Chances are he doesn't know the gun laws and doesn't know me keeping a loaded gun in my center console is perfectly legal.

Gosh, you folks on the internet are really sharp! Y'all are on on to that little known truth that all LEOs use those pesky classes on their states' firearms laws as the only time ya can catch a little shut-eye during the academy or inservice training ... After all, no LEO really needs to actually know any laws ... we have the internet!

Because it's my damn right to refuse a search.

Well, ya got me there ... who's responsible for that pesky Constitution thingie, anyway?

Some of you guys really, really crack me up sometimes.

 

[Treo]

Then why is his patch sewn to my colors?

Interesting in Colorado Security Guards are required to where a patch that specifically identifies them as private security. ( off course you can buy one of those patches at any flee market) names the company they work for. And it expressedly can not have the word police on it.

Of course there's also the tendency for S/Os to work W/ partners.

All in all I'm having a very hard time believing that you beat up an agent of the owners of the mall and just walked away W/ no charges filed.

Could you provide some proof ( that can't be purchased at a flea market ) that this actually happened

 

[The Tourist]

Old Dog, one of the things that bother me the most about these threads is that the people with the least knowledge are always the biggest blowhards.

Your absolutely right, most cops are honest and do not carry dope and "drop guns" to fake evidence. They don't have do. A dedicated officer playing by the rules, developing circumstances for an arrest doesn't need to violate enumerated rights.

And let me get one thing out of the way. In the first half of my life I wasn't exactly a choir boy. Having said that, the ones which I ran afoul, and the cop who arrested me for CCW, LT. Gary Moore, were some of the most professional.

LT Moore was so professional I hired him.

I am proud of the relationship I now have with the LEOs of Dane County. Several weeks ago I called the locals to my home for two unrelated matters. Stand up kind of guys, all of them.

As always, it's the chairborne rangers and posers who generate the most wind.

 

[The Tourist]

Treo, this is why I don't believe a thing you say.

You obviously don't know bikers, the 1960's, and the concept of colors.

I do think you see Bruce Wayne when you look into the mirror.