dogtown tom
Member
Actually it's a FedEx letter. From ATF.
Hopefully you hold a Form 1. But even then.........
Hopefully you hold a Form 1. But even then.........
Hide your dog!
Diversified Machine customer? You've got mail.....
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MachIVshooter
Member
The way it reads, I wouldn't think anyone with a F1 for the kit would have a problem. But this is the AFT we're talking about, so............
As far as I know, they still haven't actually charged Chris with anything, either, just holding onto all his equipment and money indefinitely.
As far as I know, they still haven't actually charged Chris with anything, either, just holding onto all his equipment and money indefinitely.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Both mine have stamps! I swear!
I have other ones with stamps too!
That’s not my dog! I don’t even have a dog!
I have other ones with stamps too!
That’s not my dog! I don’t even have a dog!
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Is it like a phishing attempt? Mass mail it and hope some idiots turn in unregistered suppressors, then state how illegal suppressors are rampant because we found some? Then smite them for example?
Seems like it would be easy enough to cross these with filed form ones, since he has been shut down for awhile, and only mail this form to those that purchased without filing.
So, I shouldn’t be getting one.
But what do I know…
Seems like it would be easy enough to cross these with filed form ones, since he has been shut down for awhile, and only mail this form to those that purchased without filing.
So, I shouldn’t be getting one.
But what do I know…
The Glockodile
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MachIVshooter
Member
NFA branch really has no idea what's registered to whom. Really. If you lose your stamp and need a replacement, unless it was efiled, you're hosed. It's probably somewhere in a damp, beat up file box in a shipping container, but they're not gonna go looking for it.
Not to mention that this ASAC has no idea what he's talking about. Read it, scratch your head, read it again, rinse and repeat. Stating plainly "none of which are registered", and that non-SOTs can't possess a silencer? The guy doesn't even have a rudimentary understanding of the law, nor access to the registry. Middle management clown.
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dogtown tom
Member
Truth.
Several years ago, ATF surveyed IOI's and other staff regarding the accuracy of the NFA Registry. Read this article for the hilarity:https://blog.princelaw.com/2017/06/...al-firearms-registration-and-transfer-record/
I wouldn't trust efile record security any more than paper.
My eForms account shows one firearm listed twice (they can't figure out how to remove the duplicate entry) and one silencer that I never received (Form 3 approved, but never shipped). Multiple attempts made with three different local IOI's and NFA Division staff over the last five years and those erroneous entries still exist.
Yup
Depending on what was shipped, he may be correct for those items. Certainly not everything shipped by Diversified was actually a silencer.
As posted on another forum: "whether you Form 1'd it or not, It was already (in their opinion) an unregistered silencer ...... and you can't register "contraband"
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dogtown tom
Member
If ATF Technical Branch determines that the items Diversified was shipping meets the definition of "silencer", those that received them need to be concerned. So far, that hasn't happened. All thats out there is a poorly written letter from one ATF Acting SAC.
Not necessarily. I can go down to Home Depot and load up on steel tubing and washers.....that doesn't make them silencers or silencer parts.
But if I start shipping a kit with 6" threaded tube, spacers and washers? Calling them a solvent kit doesn't make ATF blink.
greyling22
Member
so can I toss my letter and forget about it? I form 1'd 2 cans based of DM parts. bought ti tubes and endcaps. no "baffles"
also, isn't it something that they had fedex deliver government documents instead of the government postal service........ think if all the money they spent on sending these things out. they could have hired more people to process my form 4 stamp!
also, isn't it something that they had fedex deliver government documents instead of the government postal service........ think if all the money they spent on sending these things out. they could have hired more people to process my form 4 stamp!
MachIVshooter
Member
That's just it. Apparently this ASAC & his "team" can't even be bothered to look up what was shipped.
They sent us a letter, too. Gave me a good laugh. Not only am I an 02 SOT, but I also never actually bought anything from Chris. A couple years ago he sent me a pile of MGMN300 grooving inserts he no longer needed as a thank you for giving him some tech tips on products. That's it.
They're just sending the laughable note to any address which ever received anything from DM.
Me either. They've straight up lost Eforms F2 and F3 submissions of mine. But the approved forms/stamps are emailed, so the PDF should be accessible even if one didn't save it in their documents
.
giggitygiggity
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Not to derail the topics, but I have a thought… since we have to pay the government $200 per suppressor or other NFA item, wouldn’t it only be fair if the government paid us $200 if we buy or create devices that make guns louder? Haha.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
What I find interesting is the last statement.
Obviously, I get what they are trying to imply, but why would I be prosecuted for buying more stamps and suppressors?
I guess I’m just not very afraid of the Big Bad Wolf since I’m a law abiding citizen and all…
Obviously, I get what they are trying to imply, but why would I be prosecuted for buying more stamps and suppressors?
I guess I’m just not very afraid of the Big Bad Wolf since I’m a law abiding citizen and all…
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dogtown tom
Member
I think the point of that last paragraph pertains to those that received items from Diversified that meet the definition of "silencer" in federal law. If what you received is a silencer they are giving you thirty days to turn it in.
That letter isn't saying YOU ARE IN VIOLATION, instead YOU MAY BE IN VIOLATION. This letter is a poorly written warning that you better be in compliance with the requirements of the NFA.
It's for the ignorant that don't know about the NFA and numbskulls relying on state laws that purport to exempt residents of their state from federal law. While ATF may not know exactly what you received, they apparently do know that you received something.
Keep in mind that you cannot legally make a silencer, then file a Form 1.......it's too late. "After the fact" hasn't worked so far. If that Wish.com solvent trap was determined to be a silencer when it arrived from China, then a Form 1 doesn't apply. Thats why Customs/ATF began seizing them.
RockRat64
Member
On Reddit a few people called. I guess they said if you have a form 1 you are GTG.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/commen...date/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/commen...date/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
MachIVshooter
Member
They really have to take that position. Any halfway decent lawyer would have a field day with ex post facto if they try to prosecute someone who jumped through all the hoops to stay legal with things that were determined to be contraband at a later date, especially since that official determination has not been made by FTB.
Gordon
Member
It's all good if you comply with the rules.
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Mark_Mark
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and this is why bitcoin is so popular
plodder
Member
Called the BATFE? What could possibly go wrong
?
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Nothing.Called the BATFE? What could possibly go wrong
Usually they have the best customer service representatives I’ve been able to get a hold of. To the number they have been cordial, attentive and even helpful.
A time I called to see about a couple of suppressor’s status, as it had been seven months and much earlier forms were being sent out. I commented that my finger prints were in a separate envelope, since I already closed the first envelope I just made another one. The man at the other end shuffled some papers but said he didn’t see anything right there, as a happy baby squealed in the back ground.
Lo and behold, the very next day two approved stamps arrived in my email, dated the previous evening. Coincidence? I like to think not.
Two other incidents of silly questions, answered with patience and a smile I could hear, make me wish Brownells had service representatives as well taught. Or perhaps brought up.
It’s not like you’re talking with enforcement agents when you call in.
plodder
Member
Nothing.
Usually they have the best customer service representatives I’ve been able to get a hold of. To the number they have been cordial, attentive and even helpful.
A time I called to see about a couple of suppressor’s status, as it had been seven months and much earlier forms were being sent out. I commented that my finger prints were in a separate envelope, since I already closed the first envelope I just made another one. The man at the other end shuffled some papers but said he didn’t see anything right there, as a happy baby squealed in the back ground.
Lo and behold, the very next day two approved stamps arrived in my email, dated the previous evening. Coincidence? I like to think not.
Two other incidents of silly questions, answered with patience and a smile I could hear, make me wish Brownells had service representatives as well taught. Or perhaps brought up.
It’s not like you’re talking with enforcement agents when you call in.
All joking aside I too can report nothing but good customer service the one and only time I called the ATF to change the caliber of a filed Form 1 I had in process for a silencer. Not only did the agent find and fix my issue he pulled 2 other Form 1s I had in queue and I got stamps on all 3 within 2 days.
It's just easy to poke at the ATF because the bulk (if not the entirety) of the organization's purpose is to infringe upon our rights and it galls me to compliment them for good customer service as they are doing so. Kind of like after being mugged you say "sure, the thug took my wallet at gunpoint but he was very polite as he did it. He said please and thank you & then as he ran away he said "have a nice day"!"
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MachIVshooter
Member
The people who work for ATF are just that; people. They work the job for a paycheck, and are generally representative of the same population any other American workforce is comprised of. There are some antis in the mix, some gun people, and a whole lot of non-gunners.
Where the difference lies is at the top, including (perhaps especially) local "big dogs" like this hard-on ASAC who aspires to more authority.
It seems that Chris did make some serious mistakes, more to it than just solvent traps, but the clown in the Detroit office has massively overstepped sending threatening letters on the taxpayer dime to anyone and everyone who ever had contact with Chris.
Where the difference lies is at the top, including (perhaps especially) local "big dogs" like this hard-on ASAC who aspires to more authority.
It seems that Chris did make some serious mistakes, more to it than just solvent traps, but the clown in the Detroit office has massively overstepped sending threatening letters on the taxpayer dime to anyone and everyone who ever had contact with Chris.
Well, as of January they have a new SAC, which may be why they posted this “correction” to the letter:
Maybe the new guy is trying to clean up the mess!
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