DIY Action Tuneup

[UncleEd]

Dudemeister, thanks for the video. Your trigger return appears
to be fairly decent but.......

.....just did a check on one of my Smiths. Your trigger doesn't
seem to have the really powerful snap to reset as the Smith which
I keep for home defense.

 

[Dudemeister]

To be sure, it doesn't have the same snap as the factory original. But then again I don't shoot competitively, and I don't have the finger reflexes of Jerry Miculeck, so as long as the trigger resets as it does, it's more than fast enough for me.

FWIW, Jerry Miculeck's spring kit has a hammer spring nearly identical in shape to the one in the Wilson kit. There are no specs as to the trigger return spring power, but some of the info I found on the web states his spring is 13lb. The Wilson Combat kit comes with 3 springs, 12, 13 and 14lb. I used the 14lb spring in my guns.

So the way I see it, if 13lb is fast enough for the fastest trigger finger alive, then it's more than good for my slow shooting.

 

[UncleEd]

The only thing that counts is for a shooter to be satisfied
with the firearm and it meets his/her needs.

 

[Dudemeister]

Hear, hear...

 

[9mmepiphany]

There are no specs as to the trigger return spring power, but some of the info I found on the web states his spring is 13lb.

I'm not sure where you read that, but it seem to contradict what he has said in his YouTube videos. He has stated and been quoted in articles as stating that he installs a stronger than stock rebound spring in his competition revolvers...so that the trigger reset can keep up with his trigger speed.

I have a Miculeck spring kit in one of my K-frames and the rebound spring is indeed lighter. I believe he spec'd the rebound spring weight to cater to his target audience

 

[DudeFromSweden]

@Dudemeister agreed about an object moving through air or a liquid creating more friction with speed. What I think I meant is something about friction and "stiction" that I probably can't explain properly since english isn't my first language, and I don't fully understand the principles at work, I just had a vague recollection of a physics class way back. I'll just leave that before I get a headache

I also didn't in any way imply that your use of the trigger pull gauge was faulty

It doesn't look like you'll outrun your trigger from the video, but only you will know that for sure. As I mentioned in my previous post, I can set my trigger to unreasonably light, I'll still have a somewhat snappy return when I release it, but I still end up shortstroking it because I can't feel it pushing against my finger enough at the end of its forward travel, but that's just the way I found works for me in competition. UncleEd nailed it

@9mmepiphany I also seem to remember Jerry mentioning in a video that he uses a stronger rebound spring in his own revolvers, but the kit having a reduced power spring for the reasons you state.

Dudefromsweden

 

[UncleEd]

Regarding Jerry Miculek, he has a video in which he takes
a brand new Model 10 .38 Smith, does a bit of light stoning
of parts and then installs his spring kit. He says the spring
kit may need the softest primers (Federal) and is OK for
range shooting.

But he cautions that if the gun is for defense/actual life
threatening scenarios, have the stock springs in the gun.
Again, Smith & Wesson wants a user to have the most
reliable firearm possible with all kinds of ammunition and in
all kinds of situations.

I've found that with stock springs I can keep my finger on the
trigger with considerable pressure and a reset will occur in
a very forceful, robust manner. The stock springs are to overcome
the adrenalin high of a person reacting to a dangerous situation.
In practice when relaxed that trigger may "seem" too heavy but it
won't be in a crisis when the finer motor skills go kaput.

Some have referred to the strain screw which holds in the flat hammer
spring as an "adjustment" screw. It's not and should be seated all the
way in to prevent it from loosening during repeated firings. And
periodically check the side plate screws to see that they are tight
as repeated firings can loosen them.

Lord, this is a windy posting.

 

[Dudemeister]

I'm not sure where you read that, but it seem to contradict what he has said in his YouTube videos. He has stated and been quoted in articles as stating that he installs a stronger than stock rebound spring in his competition revolvers...so that the trigger reset can keep up with his trigger speed.

I have a Miculeck spring kit in one of my K-frames and the rebound spring is indeed lighter. I believe he spec'd the rebound spring weight to cater to his target audience

Take a look at the his video below starting at 1:46. Specifically states that the spring he just pulled out from the gun is considerably "heavier" than the one in the kit.

 

[DudeFromSweden]

@UncleEd I liked your long post, it had good info, however, on my 617 range gun, while I will refer to the strain screw as a strain screw, I will treat it as a adjustment screw for the gun to be enjoyable to shoot Rimfire is hard to ignite, but I feel S&W went a bit overboard with this one. I could shorten the screw I guess, but it have not shown any signs of walking out in a whole lot of shots.

 

[Dudemeister]

I could shorten the screw I guess, but it have not shown any signs of walking out in a whole lot of shots.

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but on my 686, both the hammer spring adjustment screw and the screw holding the yoke in place have red Locktite on them.

To me, that implies they can be set to a specific depth, but not fully tightened, and the Locktite prevents them from working themselves out.

Disclaimer: I bought my 686 used, so I can't be sure whether that is how the gun comes from the factory, or was done by the previous owner/gunsmith.

 

[labnoti]

I'll reiterate what I put in post #4. A lighter than stock return spring will cause trigger overruns if you're firing multiple shots with short split times. I've found I can use the #15 return spring from a Wolff kit. This is one step lower than the stock spring which I believe to be #16. Jerry may need a #16 or a #17 because his splits are shorter than mine. The return spring does not affect reliability of primer strikes but it does affect speed of trigger return and how quickly the gun is ready to fire the next shot.

The mainspring is what drives the hammer to strike the primer. It is affected by the preload from the strain screw. If you install anything but the factory stock spring, or a full-power aftermarket spring, you will probably be limited to reliable ignition from Federal primers only. The Wolff Power-rib mainsprings are available in full-power and reduced power. Both these power-rib mainsprings are indented where the strain screw touches it. The full-power Power-rib mainspring is likely only to be as reliable if it is used with a full-length strain screw because the power-rib indentation shortens its effective length. Otherwise, some smiths will get a few strain screws and shorten (or loosen) one until it becomes undependable and then shorten another one less than that. In my experience, it just makes for unreliable ignition. Some people report getting away with weaker spring force using Federal primers. I don't use those primers. I do use full-power Power-rib springs. My revolvers came from the S&W factory with them. I use full-length strain screws or I get a misfire every ~100 or so. Otherwise, I've shot thousands consecutively without a misfire.

I will also add that my J frame's trigger is much harder than my larger S&W. I spent a couple years getting good with it, but you know, it's not really worth it when the KLN frames are so much better for so many reasons. If someone only has a j frame, they really ought to try something better. A snub-nosed K frame is only a little bigger and so much better.

 

[labnoti]

The yoke screw has the dry threadlocker on it from the factory.

The strain screw should be fully tightened. It can be loosened to "try" the effect of less mainspring preload on a temporary basis. I wouldn't recommend leaving it permanently loose and relying on threadlocker to hold it in place. The factory does not do that. Instead, they will shorten the screw.

 

[UncleEd]

That red on the screw ends is probably not
Loctite but a factory tightener similar to
ordinary nail polish. It helps hold the screws
in but can easily be overcome with screw
driver pressure.

The tightener is to keep the screw(s) from
backing out during repeated firings. That
front plate screw is a bit shorter than the
center screw and holds the cylinder in place.
It's happened that it has come loose and on a
reload, the cylinder falls right out of the gun.

It you mix up the screws and use the longer
center screw in place of the original cylinder
screw, you'll likely make it extremely hard to
open and close the cylinder.

In later models in the 1990s, the front screw was
redesigned and its head and body is bigger than
the center screw. It was needed for the newer
yoke design.

I see Labnoti beat me to posting some of the info
I've included and his descriptions are very good and
sound which follow S&W protocols.

.

 

[Dudemeister]

Well, at least I don't have to worry about split times or anything like that. I don't shoot competitively, and in my neck of the woods, most of the ranges don't allow "rapid fire". Some won't allow any thing faster than 1 shot every 2 or 3 seconds, as they are public ranges and some of the shooters are just learning to control their firearms.