DM Rifle Plan

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoneRider

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
155
I'm planning on constructing my own Designated Marksman Rifle by modifying a stock Remington R-15 DMR in .223 caliber (commonality of rounds).

The weapon's maximum engagement ranges are between 400-600 meters and it must have BUIS. I've found some Talon Arms detachable iron sights that are adaptable to the flattop rail atop the R-15 VTR that also fold up.

As for the weapon's optics I intend to put either a variable power Nikon 1.5-6x42mm scope or an Trijicon ACOG. The engagement ranges for this weapon are everything from possibly close ranges (100 meters or less) to longer ranges (400-600 meters). My question is which optical sight would be best? I'm leaning towards the ACOG so far...
 
Last edited:
There is still time to edit the title to read " DMR Rifle Plan "... otherwise IBTL.
 
Edited the title.

But any rate I have a shotgun at home for close in defense.

The rifle is built both as a budget 3-gun and designated marksman rifle clone. I am simply modifying a Remington R-15 which has the field sturdiness I need and obvious accuracy to the standards of the US Army DMR/USMC SAM-R.
 
I am simply modifying a Remington R-15 which has the field sturdiness I need and obvious accuracy to the standards of the US Army
Wow, I guess I didn't realize that the Rem. AR was so structurally superior...when did it meet the mil-spec requirements? :)
 
We don't do IBTL here.

As for the OP query, if you want to hit smallish targets at 400-600 yards, you're better off with a Type III/SPR optic, not a Type II/DMR optic.
 
My apologies I'll be more careful with what I place on the post next time around.

Anyway so the Type III SPR Optic would be the 1.5-6x42mm Nikon suggested by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow. The thing is though I'd like an optical sight that is both rugged and capable of doing well for engaging targets at a 400-600 meter range.

I've heard after action reports that Army soldiers report reliable kills on man sized targets at 600 meters using the ACOG so that does tip the scale in favor of the ACOG somewhat.
 
so the Type III SPR Optic would be the 1.5-6x42mm Nikon suggested

Unless we're looking at different things, the Nikon 1.5-6x42 is not a type III/SPR scope.


D100_5378_img.jpg
article | Fighting Carbine Optics extwh3.png

Type III sighting systems have the capability to take the rifle to its ballistic limit and to engage very small target at extended ranges. The 18-inch Mk12 Mod 1 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) uses such an optic, so it makes sense to call it an SPR optic. Military-issue 5.56 loads fired from a 16-inch barrel go subsonic between 600 and 800 yards at sea level, and this defines the longest possible engagement distance. Keep in mind that the terminal energy of 5.56 at this distance is very low, however, the SPR has made kills at over 600 yards using 77-grain ammunition. The other advantage these have over the Type II or DMR optic is the ability to see and engage very small targets at intermediate and long distances. When fighting opponents who are partially behind cover or wearing armor, the ability to ID targets and place a head shot several hundred yards away can be key.

The Type III optic is generally a variable magnification scope with a maximum power of 9x to 12x. The reticle is typically some type of mil-dot or mil-hash, and has lines thin enough to discern a sight picture on 2 MOA targets. In order to compensate for bullet drop and wind drift at longer distances, the Type III optic usually has external knobs. At close distances, the scope magnification can be dialed down to somewhere between two and four power for faster target acquisition or tracking moving targets.

The Type III optic is basically a long-range rifle scope with the features required for tactical or practical engagements, so it is no surprise that a lot of scopes more often seen on long-range bolt-action sniper rifles turn up on AR-15s in this role. The geometry of the AR-15 platform, however, complicates the choice. Conventional scopes have eye relief over three inches, which means the ocular lens of the scope will have to be mounted about three inches forward of the charging handle for most shooters. This requires either a cantilevered mount such as the LaRue SPR or SPR-E mounts, or a raised and extended rail such as the full-length ARMS rail on the SPR. With a scope mounted this far forward, the carbine can end up muzzle heavy, and the scope's objective can conflict with rail mounted devices such as an AN/PEQ-4. The size of the optic can also dominate the AR-15 carbine.

The canonical Type III or SPR optic is the Leupold Mark 4 3-9x36 mm MR/T with a one-MOA M1 elevation knob. Leupold developed this scope specifically for the SPR program; its small size, low weight, and slightly shorter than normal eye relief are good matches to the AR-15 platform. Leupold has recently come out with a 2.5-8x36mm MR/T in M1 (1/4 MOA), M2 (1/2 MOA), and M3 (1 MOA) knob configurations. None of these have a first focal-plane reticle configuration, so the reticle features can only be used for ranging or hold-off at the top magnification setting. These Leupold MR/T scopes cost $900 to $1100. Nightforce's 2.5-10x24 NXS fits right in with the Leupold models. Its elevation knob is capped and has 10 MOA per turn in 1/4 MOA clicks, and no zero stop. It sells for about $1200.
 
Shooting Times article on DMR rifle: (June 2009)

Rifle:
HBAR 20in 1:8 twist barrel
KAC trigger
ACOG 4x

Bullet:
77gr SMK - replaced the 73gr Berger
 
now if i could only find my perfect type III scope. 9-10 inches total length. 10x top power. small capped windage knob. 8-10 mil elevation knob with zero stop. and ffp illuminated mil reticle.
i think the only one that comes close is a u.s. optics sn-3, but its a little long. i basically want everything my premier heritage gives me in a smaller package.
 
Zak, thats the rumor i heard. I was hoping to go to shot show this year for a confirmation. Have you seen a prototype of said scope?
 
Well fess up...what is this interesting creature? A smaller, slimmer, lighter DMR type Class III optic I presume (trying to get a mil contract). :)
 
I was told I might want to wait before purchasing a scope for the ar. I have no idea how long a wait or even if it will be what i'm looking for. keeping fingers crossed.

until the time comes, i am having to make due with another scope.
 
think about it. those of us who use high end scopes like the premier or s&b know how many barriers are taken down when you don't have to compromise.
I don't like questioning if my scope was on 8,9, or 10 power. I like to know if I use a half mil hold for wind that it will actually be a half mil.
the market is wide open for a nice compact high end no compromise type III optic.
u.s. optics is the only one even close to having a scope like i described earlier. I would like the compact nightforce, but I have grown addicted to ffp.
 
The market killer wouldn't simply be a Type III scope. We have a lot of those for bolt guns. Think about what makes a Type III scope not great for other carbine applications.
 
off the top of my head. typically type III scopes have too much eye relief, and are not true 1x scopes.
I would think a mil based reticle at true 1x would have to have some sort of thick ring surrounding the reticle, at probably 10-15 mils from center, to be useful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top