Do I have this right?

[Bartkowski]

I feel like it is to easy to reload so I want to be sure I have done everything properly. I have read the manuals, but still feel the need to check with someone.

First I clean and inspect the cases.
De-prime/size
Trim to the correct length
Deburr inside and outside of case mouth
Prime cases
Measure powder charge
Seat the bullet less than the C.O.L.

Did I do everything I need to for 30-06?

 

[Bush Pilot]

Define your bullet seating step in a little more depth, everything else looks fine.

 

[ants]

Shouldn't you seat the bullet not less than the minimum cartridge overall length listed in the load table you're using?

 

[Bartkowski]

I seat is less than the maximum length, not minimum.

The 165gr SPBT have a maximum C.O.L. of 3.300" and I have the bullets in so the overall length is 3.200".

 

[btefft]

3.200 ought to be okay. Do have a factory round laying around that you can measure. You may be surprised at how "short" they are.

Hack

 

[Bartkowski]

I have looked at factory rounds and that's why I thought having mine that short is no problem. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.

 

[oldgold]

Too Deep

You have taken up a lot of case volume which may increase pressure. C.O.L. is to insure function through the action as much as anything. Generally seating a bullet 0.010 off the lands is recommended for best accuracy. 0.100 deep is way too deep.

Depending on your load [-5% starting load?] they might be safe to shoot but I'll bet you will be disappointed with the accuracy.

Good luck, hope this helps.....goldy

 

[Bartkowski]

I am using 56.0 gr. of IMR 4350, and 165gr. Sierra SPBT. And after checking the overall length again, they are all 3.175". Any longer than this and the bullets were not secure in the case.

How would I know how far to seat the bullet so that it is .010" off the lands without buying all sorts of tools?

I am more interested in the safety of the cartridge now than I am accuracy.

Also should I be concerned about some 125gr. spitzer bullets loaded over 53.0gr of IMR4895, with an overall length of 3.050"?

 

[Bartkowski]

might be safe to shoot

If they might be safe, how could I be sure my future rounds are safe? How do you load your ammo to know it is safe and fairly accurate?

 

[jacobhh]

I am using 56.0 gr. of IMR 4350, and 165gr. Sierra SPBT. And after checking the overall length again, they are all 3.175". Any longer than this and the bullets were not secure in the case.

Am I missing something here?
You are talking 30-06 Springfield, correct?
Where are you getting your load info?

My 5th edition Sierra reloading manual has 56gr of IMR4350
using their 165 gr. SBT as a MAX load with a COAL of 3.330".
As you have decreased case capacity by pressing to a COAL
of 3.175" thereby increasing pressure, I would consider that
load to be UNSAFE! I have a tendency
to trust the bullet manufacturer on COAL. If the case is trimmed
to the recommended 2.485" and the neck is properly resized,
I can't think of why you'd have to go down to 3.175" to secure
the bullet. Something is wrong. Are you sure the bullet is the
Soft point SBT and not the Hollow point HPBT?

 

[steve4102]

Am I missing something here?
You are talking 30-06 Springfield, correct?
Where are you getting your load info?

My 5th edition Sierra reloading manual has 56gr of IMR4350
using their 165 gr. SBT as a MAX load with a COAL of 3.330".
As you have decreased case capacity by pressing to a COAL
of 3.175" thereby increasing pressure, I would consider that
load to be UNSAFE! I have a tendency
to trust the bullet manufacturer on COAL. If the case is trimmed
to the recommended 2.485" and the neck is properly resized,
I can't think of why you'd have to go down to 3.175" to secure
the bullet. Something is wrong. Are you sure the bullet is the
Soft point SBT and not the Hollow point HPBT?

You beat me to it. These measurements do not make sense. More important is the powder charge! Bartkowski, are you saying this is your first loads and you started at 56gr of IMR4350?? This is a Max load. Never start with a max load.


Here is what Accurate Powders says about COL.

SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 1) magazine length (space), 2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel, 3) ogive or profile of the projectile and 4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

 

[Mike 56]

I have two ways that i use figure max COL. The first is you seat a bullet a little long in a unprimed, uncharged case insert in the chamber and close the bolt measure the cartridge then subtract 10 thousands. The second way to buy two collars with set screws that will fit over your cleaning rod. With your muzzle pointed down drop a bullet into your chamber put a collar on your cleaning rod with a plastic jag filed flat. With the muzzle still pointing down insert the cleaning though the muzzle an till it touches the bullet then tighten the collar at the end of the barrel. Now remove the bullet and close the bolt slide a second collar on the cleaning rod and insert it from the muzzle until it touches the bolt face then tighten the collar. Measure the space between the collars subtract 10 thousands and that is your max cartridge length.

I agree with everyone that a short OAL and max load is asking for trouble. A starting or reduced load will be a lot more forgiving. Remember the loads listed in your manual are one size fits all they don't take into consideration the design or condition of your firearm. always start out with starting loads and work up slowly. Besides a lot of times you find starting loads to be the most accurate.

A Lee Factory crimp die is a useful tool to hep you customize your loads helps you get uniform start pressure and makes your COL less critical.

Mike

 

[The Bushmaster]

I believe these guys are trying to tell you to get an error eraser (kenetic hammer) and remove the bullet, resize the case, recharge the case with less powder and seat the bullet to your manual's COL. And I agree!!

 

[PecosRiverM]

not to be a smart ---

But Mike56 don't ya have that backwards?

 

[LB7_Driver]

Different loading manuals often list different maximum powder charges. This is why you want to start low and work up - there are many converging reasons why this is a good idea.

Here's a (very) general rule of thumb I use for bullet seating...
If the base of the bullet is seated below the bottom of the neck, start paying close attention to pressure signs.

More specific bullet seating lore -
Ammo intended to go into a magazine must be short enough (duh! ). For reliability and because of differences in magazines, I'll seat bullets 0.020" - 0.030" shorter than what just fits into most mags. Shorter/lighter bullets for the caliber will probably not be long enough to have magazine issues.

Ammo that does not have to fit into a mag can be as long as you like, so long as it chambers OK for your purposes. Be careful if you're seating into the lands... you probably don't want to do that.

If the bullet has a crimp grove (cannelure), AND the bullet is intended for the particular caliber you are loading, then seating to the cannelure is a safe bet (308 vs. 30-06 military bullets have the cannelure at different places, for instance).

Seating a bullet one caliber deep is a pretty good rule of thumb. I've never run into pressure issues by doing this. Seating much shallower than that and you have to be careful when handling the ammo so as not to dislodge bullets. Seating deeper will not give you a better grip on the bullet.

Seating a bullet so the ogive is below the case mouth is seated too deep. This one's a pretty hard & fast rule.

Seating a bullet so shallow that you can move the bullet with your fingers is probably not seated deep enough.

Have fun & be safe!

 

[Bartkowski]

I have an old speer manual that says 57.0 gr. of 4350 as the starting load, and Hodgdon's website says that 56.0gr. is a starting load. NOT maximum.

I will go and pull the bullets and seat the bullets to the COL. Now if seating them to the overall length is okay my only question now is about the powder. If my manuals say that it is a starting load and Hodgdon's website says that too, why should I suspect differently?

And you all have said that the COL is there to make sure that the loaded cartridge functions in the gun; so why is the COL different for different bullets all for 30-06?

 

[buck460XVR]

Hodgdon's website says that 56.0gr. is a starting load. NOT maximum

I noticed that many of Hodgdons handgun recipes from their website list starting loads that exceed or equal Maximun loads from my Speer and Hornady manuals. In some of their .357 loads they show pressures much higher than recommended max. Why they would do this is beyond me.

Another reason to reference more than one source and to start low and work up.

 

[Bartkowski]

I talked to a friend of mine who has been reloading for 40 years and he said he will help me out.

I just want to confirm that you seat the bullet to to that the COL is equal to the COL in the manual.

I am going to go out and buy a few more manuals tommorow, any recommendations? I would like a manual that I don't have to guess what powder charge to start with. One that has a starting load that is safe to start with.

 

[steve4102]

I am going to go out and buy a few more manuals tommorow, any recommendations

Lyman 48 or the new Lyman 49 if you can find it. It's not a bad idea to have a manual for your favorite bullet manufacturer. I use a lot of Nosler, Sierra and Hornady bullets so I have manuals for each.

 

[ants]

Bart, you need to learn about safe reloading first

Whether you buy Lyman, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Lee, or any other...

Read the front part of the book first!!! It will teach you how to reload safely.

Once you understand how to load safely, then you go to the data and select a load.

 

[Mal H]

Glad you're getting some on-site help and listening to the help here in this forum. Frankly your initial statements seemed to be assuming a lot and somewhat arbitrary, e.g., "The 165gr SPBT have a maximum C.O.L. of 3.300" and I have the bullets in so the overall length is 3.200"."

Most manuals don't list a max and min OAL, they list a single recommended OAL for a specific bullet configuration. Using a shorter OAL without knowing why tends to be dangerous.

 

[scrat]

crimp. didnt see any one mention it.

 

[Larry E]

First buy and read ALL the manuals you can afford. Check the charges in ALL those manuals for the bullet weight and powder you're planning on using. Take an average maximum charge for bullets that have the same weight and shape (flatbase or boattail), reduce by 5% minimum, and load a set of loads (three for each charge) increasing the charge 0.5 gr for each set of loads and go up to the average maximum. If you get stiff bolt lift, or any other sign of high pressures before you reach the calculated max load STOP.

Boattail bullets frequently can't be seated as long as flatbase bullets, but I seat 150 gr Hornady FMJBT's to ~3.25" OAL for my M1, and can't see why 165 gr Sierra SPBT's couldn't be seated to that length or longer. If possible I seat bullets for ammunition that's got to fit in a magazine as long as the magazine will allow with reliable feeding, OR as long as the throat will allow minus maybe 0.01-0.03". For single loading I load 'em to where the rifle gives the best accuracy.

READ the manuals and do what they say.

 

[Bartkowski]

Why do I remove 5% from the average maximum instead of just using a starting load?

 

[kount_zer0]

He said back off 5% minimum.

I read that as at least 5% reduction.

When starting out, use the starting loads until you get some experience.

Note that I did not say confidence.

My Lyman 47th says: 165gr SPBT Nosler27585
IMR 4350: 52.0 gr start, 57gr max.

52/57=.9122... a 9% reduction.

Note this book was last printed in 1994. I could go get the 48th, but I see no need to do so. Ive used IMR4350 for a while now and always work loads up when brass, primer, powder or bullets are bought.

I use a chronograph, but I load for accurracy, and have never needed a max load.

Enjoy!