Do I really need any other caliber than 9mm?

[Kachok]

By the way, as much as I like the .357 golden saber round, you chose one of the hottest 9 mm loadings and compared it to one of the weakest .357 loadings. Heck, I carry the golden saber loading out of a 3" Smith BECAUSE is a mid-range load.

No sir I did not choose the hottest 9mm to compare to the most mild 357. The most powerful 9mm load it the 115gr Buffalo Bore making a whopping 500 ft/lbs! Black Hills makes a 158gr 357 mag load with less then half of that. Now that would be an unfair comparison. The hottest 9mms run up to 500 ft/lbs the hottest 357 loads I have seen are nudging the 700 ft/lbs range, pick your poision, both will do the trick, I'll take 19+1 of 500 ft/lbs over 6 shots at 700ft/lbs for sheer firepower.
My point still stands, if you think your 375 magnum is a manstopper, and think the 9mm is some wimp round that won't stop anything you are just fooling yourself, the badguys don't stop to read your brass, near ldentical bullets striking at similar speeds produce very similar results no matter the movies say.

 

[Mike1234567]

I'm far more concerned about penetration than I am about strictly lb-ft energy. Once plenty of penetration is more-or-less guaranteed then I give more consideration to energy.

 

[CraigC]

Lots of chatter about there being no difference between the 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP from folks who probably never killed a critter with either of them. For those that have, viable outdoor handgun cartridges begin with the .357. Original blackpowder loads in the .45Colt pushed a 255gr bullet to 950fps and that is still a very potent load. The .45ACP closely duplicates this and is excellent with the right bullet. Of all, give me a good .44Spl or .44Mag any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Leave the 9mm service pistols at home. IMHO, They lack the power, the range and the accuracy to be a good outdoor sidearm. If you can't hold a 4-6" group at 50yds, offhand, you need something with better sights, a better trigger and a round thingy in the middle. Or a good 10mm or .45ACP 1911 that shoots to the sights.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.viable outdoor handgun cartridges begin with the .357..

I shoot .360's out of 9's regularly.

 

[K1500]

Kachok,

I agree about the 9 to .357 comparison. If one is good, the other is good. i too choose 17+1 of 9 over 6 of .357

It is equally true that the Remington .357 load is loaded down compared to other factory 125 JHP loadings. For example, the Federal 125 JHP is rated at 1440 fps. Will it hit that out of a 4" barrel? Probably not, but comparing a mid-range .357 (golden saber at 1220 fps) to a +p 9mm is a bit disingenuous.

 

[Loic]

I hike in the desert every week end, my 9mm is always with me. 18+1 and an extra mag, if anything is coming at me I should have the time to empty it into that target, I think that's plenty of power, even if its not enough to kill the threat, it should slow it down enough for me to get to a safer distance, reload, and fire again.

Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk

 

[Certaindeaf]

.empty it into that target..

I hear this all the time these days about stopping a threat. Maybe it's just taught that way and to a certain degree it's true. What else can you do really?
I'm no Yoda but I'd suggest/I try to hit where it'll do the most good quickly and repeatedly with each and every shot would it be necessary.

 

[Kachok]

No bear, boar, or cat on earth could stand up to 15+rd punching 30-40 inches into their torso. 9mm 40s 45s and 357 can all be effective anamal defence IF you choose the right bullet, for example a 115gr silvertip is not going to do much to a grizley since they will expend the majority of their energy in the hide/fat, but some 147gr hardcast will drive deep into their vitals, THAT is what kills not what you have stampted on your brass, not even the KE or your bullet. Ask large dangerous game hunters what they hunt with and you will hear a whole host of calibers, but you can bet that every single one of them load a very high penatration bonded, partitioned, or solid bullet.
I would take a sissy pressure 9mm 147gr hardcast over any pre-fragmented 44 magnum bullet for anamal defense.

 

[NG VI]

Leave the 9mm service pistols at home. IMHO, They lack the power, the range and the accuracy to be a good outdoor sidearm. If you can't hold a 4-6" group at 50yds, offhand, you need something with better sights, a better trigger and a round thingy in the middle. Or a good 10mm or .45ACP 1911 that shoots to the sights.

No one is arguing that the service calibers are identical in all aspects, but as far as defense against people goes, they all do function identically. .45 Auto can be turned into a decent outdoors cartridge, like the 10mm and .357 already are, but your everyday ACP loads are far from the outdoors-specialized hot loads that you'd want to carry for animals.

 

[Ankeny]

Lots of chatter about there being no difference between the 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP from folks who probably never killed a critter with either of them.

I think you probably nailed it right there.

 

[CraigC]

...but as far as defense against people goes, they all do function identically.

Then just carry your self defense pistol to the woods and don't worry about it. Let us know how that cougar encounter goes.

I also want to see the video posted on YouTube when someone is actually able to shoot a friggin' cougar 18 times with a 9mm. That notion is purely juvenile.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.a 115gr silvertip is not going to do much..

I've shot deer and hog and lots of other smaller things with different generation regular pressure 9mm Silvertip. You're right, they're no masher but if you get that particular slug into the rightish spot, they're almost magic.

 

[Kachok]

I've shot deer and hog and lots of other smaller things with different generation regular pressure 9mm Silvertip. You're right, they're no masher but if you get that particular slug into the rightish spot, they're almost magic.

Oh yeah on thin skin anamals you want that expansion, but on something with a thick layer of hide and fat you just want to get to the vitals. No HP designed for two legged attackers will get you there on a 1,200lbs brown bear. ANY bullet of any caliber that will drive through the vital organs is vastly more effective then one that only causes a nasty flesh wound, and 9mms have a well earned reputation for good penatration. Sure a 9mm is not the ideal, but honestly what compact pistol is?

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
I hear you. I know how to use a given tool.

 

[NG VI]

I guess I didn't see where the minimum alternative to 9mm was .45 Super loaded with a minimum of 230 XTP or preferably some 230-255 grain hard cast bullets.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Like someone said before, shoot some legal critters and see for yourself.

 

[larry syverson]

I'm not a 9mm hater, it a great round for gopher shooting, but you'd have to admit if the 9mm was a good anti personnel round, the Pope would be dead. He was shot 4 times, twice in the intestines at near point blank range and lived. (Though he likely had some divine intervention.)

I can't imagine someone surviving the same from a .357 Mag. The only advantage to a 9mm is you can get nearly 3 times the number of rounds in the magazine. Remember the speech by the sheriff (Gene Hackman) in the movie Unforgiven? He was right... Goggle just about any modern "gunfight". Its all spray and pray. Hence the desire for high capacity magazines. You're far better off learning how to shoot straight with a .357 Mag. Just my HO...

 

[Ben86]

I'm not a 9mm hater, it a great round for gopher shooting, but you'd have to admit if the 9mm was a good anti personnel round, the Pope would be dead. He was shot 4 times, twice in the intestines at near point blank range and lived.

He wasn't shot in the vitals and lived. No surprise there. If he had received a 9mm hole through the heart or brain it likely would have been fatal.

Shot placement is so much more important than an extra bit of mm or kinetic energy.

Te firearms trainer told me he had shot well over 150 big game animals (mostly deer and antelope) with his .45 Les Baer, another 100+ with a department issue .40, and at least another 100 with his 9mm. That's 350 animals, and a conservative estimate at that.

Do you know what sort of ammunition they use? Just curious.

 

[Prosser]

ALL my custom revolvers shoot under 8" @ 100 yards(With the right load, 420 grain LFN's at 1350 fps, my .475 will cloverleaf at 50 and one hole at 25). Now, let's see you do that with a Glock at 20 yards and I'll be impressed. Why carry a gun with one of the worst triggers on the planet when shot placement is critical?

More likely you'll miss 17 times. There is a reason police shoot so badly, it's called Glocks.

Mountain lions? chances of getting A, read that ONE shot off, is highly suspect.
Bears? Maybe two, and you better be good. If a good bad guy really wants you, your dead already. Offense always beats defense in a gun fight.

And, to answer your question: Do you need any other caliber?
No. I believe Darwin said it best with the term "natural selection".

 

[kayak-man]

Depends on where you're hiking around here. I've heard there MIGHT be some grizz in a couple, isolated parts of the state, but for the most part my concerns would be 2 legged.

I have a 9mm, and for the most part I feel like its adequate. My only concern is the larger 4 legged animals. If your reason for a bigger gun is bigger animals, then by all means, get something with some extra horsepower.

I don't want to give you too much in the way of caliber recommendations, because I don't have a good enough feel on it yet myself, and I'm still trying to figure out how the options for .357, 10mm, and .45ACP all work out when it comes to the four legged critters, but I think any of the larger magnums (.41 and .44) along with 10mm would work nicely.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[NG VI]

Prosser, NYPD shoots so poorly because their department mandates a 13# trigger pull, about twice the stock pull for the Glock.

Shooting forty or seventy rounds at a guy fifteen yards and missing with 85% of your shots has nothing to do with the trigger either. That's a skill gap no trigger could overcome.

 

[Prosser]

Even with the stock trigger, a Glock does not equal a 1911. Heck, not even a Hi=power.

If you are going to carry the 9mm it better be because you are a great shot with it. That's kind of my problem with 9mm: A lot of guns, few that have tack driving accuracy. Either the Glock 34 or 35 are tack drivers, with decent triggers, but nobody carries those. Very few 1911 9mm's, and the ones I can find are very expensive. CZ's are supposed to be a great value, but, they are big, which would be good for a carry gun in the woods.

My Kahr PM 9 is VERY accurate, and easy to shoot for what it is, a backup to a REAL caliber and gun.

As for the magnums: too much of a good thing, in a way. What's wrong with .45 Colt? Ross Seyfried, one of the best shots ever, and one of the better hunter/guides has settled on .45 Colt as the ideal carry piece, and .416 Rigby
as the ideal rifle caliber. The .45 Colt in modern guns just works, when loaded around 1200 fps, with your choice of bullets. Since it's lower pressure, it's easier to shoot, and easier on the shooter then .41 or .44.
Same argument might be made for the .44 Special, loaded in a modern gun.

NG VI: I'm not buying. GOD would have a hard time hitting the earth with a 13 pound trigger

I have never shot a gun with a heavy trigger pull well. The worst was my 360PD at 16 pounds, and even worked over to 10 pounds, it's no Sig Sauer P210.

 

[bluetopper]

If I had stopped with the 9mm I would have missed all the pleasure and enjoyment the 44 Magnum cartridge has given me, both shooting, reloading, and experimenting with it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.my .475 will cloverleaf at 50 and one hole at 25). .If a good bad guy really wants you, your dead already. Offense always beats defense in a gun fight.

And, to answer your question: Do you need any other caliber?
No. I believe Darwin said it best with the term "natural selection".

You're talking a .475 for a gunfight? Now that's rich. I imagine the scope really clears leather fast.

 

[S&W-Keeper]

You really need a 4" S&W .357 mag. revolver.