Do powder drops increase gradually while loading?

[Stefan A]

Im using a Lee turret press. My initial powder weight was 23.1. I checked that 3 times for consistency today, and the other day several times as well. All came to 23.1. I proceeded to load 30 rounds of .44 magnum. At some point after half way, my powder weight became 23.5. This was pretty consistent with around the last 10 or so rounds. I didn't bother trying to fix it because I'm still under max and I'm only loading these for plinking. Is it typical for the powder drop on a case activated machine to increase, but then stay consistent?

BTW, this is absolutely not a Lee bashing thread, I'm just curious about this.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

May also have been humidity impacting the weight.

Then, one gets into the weight vs volume debate.....

 

[Varminterror]

No, that’s not something I have experienced.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Sometimes mine will a little bit. I don't load at the top of the data. So im not to concerned with it. Letting it have enough dump time helps too. Finer powders are more consistent too. VS bulky powders and stick powders.

 

[Stefan A]

May also have been humidity impacting the weight.

Then, one gets into the weight vs volume debate.....

It is humid today

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I run a small dehumidifier in my loading room. Amazon.com: Dehumidifier Small 35oz Dehumidifier for Home 2600 Cubic Feet with 7 Color LED Lights, Quiet Portable Dehumidifier for Bedroom 285 sq ft with Two Working Modes for Closet Bedroom Bathroom RV Office : Everything Else

 

[Varminterror]

It is humid today

Don’t chase red herrings. Your powder isn’t picking up .4grn of moisture.

Running the turret shakes the hopper, so you get a better fill efficiency through the drop once you’re cranking, versus simply trying to set the drop while the turret head is static. But it’s not going to drift up or down from there. Drops bounce around, you might have just seen a trend within noise as well.

But it wasn’t humidity gain.

 

[LiveLife]

It is humid today

Your powder isn’t picking up .4grn of moisture.

I reload at the coast often with 60-100% humidity and do not experience powder measure drop charge weight variance like that. My powder go from factory containers to the hopper and what's left goes back in the container.

Lee turret press. My initial powder weight was 23.1 ... 30 rounds ... powder weight became 23.5

Is it typical for the powder drop on a case activated machine to increase, but then stay consistent?

What you are experiencing could be due to powder settling.

When metering powder charges by volume, how much powder settles after filling the hopper could increase charge weight by powder granules packing down.

I use C-H/Dillon/Redding powder measures and use powder hopper baffles to minimize/eliminate powder settling. With baffled hopper, C-H 502 powder measure will meter popular pistol/rifle powders around .1 gr variance.

With Lee Perfect and Pro Auto Disk with small powder hoppers, I do not use baffles but will tap the hopper 10 times lightly with my finger after pouring powder to help settle the powder before dropping charges. I then drop several charges until weight readings are consistent. With many popular pistol powders, my PAD will meter with around .1 gr variance.

 

[uuolf]

+1 on the shaking... I see it vary to the higher side quite predictably... Less as the powder crams itself tighter... I'm OCD, ADHD and an SOB... When I'm working up a load or running some for an outing I'm using a digital scale, a cheap manual scale and a triple beam to verify the loads are exact... Jump on a program like quick loads and play with small adjustments... you'd be surprised how it changes the velocity slightly... and conversely the drop....Consistency is king... Pretty sure it's overboard... However each extra perfect step might yeild .1" better groups per step... Maybe 1/2" overall (tolerance stacking I guess would be a good description... Or the removal of tolerance stacking) What else would I do with my free time... Watch TV or blog... Wait... Negate the last part.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I took the baffle out of my Lyman brass smith drop. I spilled more powder with it in. When i was emptying the hopper. I do the knock when im runing the measure. I checked weights as the powder goes down. They stayed consistent.

 

[sparkyv]

Do powder drops increase gradually while loading?
Yes.

It happens on my Lee turret press with the case-activated powder drop. As the turret turns, the movement/vibrations cause the powder grains to compact more and more to a certain threshold, thus the powder density increases...more powder fits in the powder measure cavity, so the charge does increase until densification stops. For me and the common powders I use, it settles in about the 1st 25 rounds, and two or three adjustments are needed until everything settles. But, I can minimize the effect if first, I gently tap the bottom of the filled hopper for about 30 seconds to pack the powder. When I do that, the densification settles in around 10 rounds, usually with a single 0.1 grain correction needed.

This:

What you are experiencing could be due to powder settling.

When metering powder charges by volume, how much powder settles after filling the hopper could increase charge weight by powder granules packing down.
With Lee Perfect and Pro Auto Disk with small powder hoppers, I do not use baffles but will tap the hopper 10 times lightly with my finger after pouring powder to help settle the powder before dropping charges. I then drop several charges until weight readings are consistent. With many popular pistol powders, my PAD will meter with around .1 gr variance

+1 on the shaking... I see it vary to the higher side quite predictably... Less as the powder crams itself tighter... I'm OCD, ADHD and an SOB...

 

[Stefan A]

Thanks. Very helpful info everyone.

 

[Bartojc]

If mine fluctuates much at all it would be in the first 4-8 rounds. Even then maybe +/- .1, never have I seen .4.
When starting a session I usually measure the first few drops to make sure I am where I want to be. THen maybe every 20 or so rounds.
I never have to adjust except for maybe initially upon setup and the first few cases.

-Jeff

 

[MtnHiker]

Thanks for the good knowledge!

 

[lordpaxman]

I’ve seen slight variations on both a Hornady and Dillon powder measure. The height of the powder column, the powder, and the consistency of the press vibrations contribute to it. I’m usually dropping 3.1 gn of Sport Pistol and have seen it vary +/- .1 gn . I manually work the powder measure 30 or 40 times at the beginning of a loading session to get the powder settled but during a run I’ll weigh a few samples to make sure it’s dropping at least my minimum charge.

 

[Rule3]

On a side note, what powder and bullet are you loading?? Seems like you could be more powder efficient if just loading for "plinking"?
23 grains is a lot of powder to just burn up.

 

[243winxb]

more powder efficient i

Good point. IMR 4227, H110, Win 296 loads eat a lot of powder. 23/24 grs
I have been loading 44 mag with midrange powder, like Alliants Unique.

Balance beam scale accuracy is +/- 1/10gr. Takes 20 to 40 drops for powder to settle & coat the measure.
Try to maintain the same level of powder in the measure. (More for large batches)

I set up the measure, using 10 drops for an average, when loading for handguns. Like 3.8 grs Bullseye X 10 = 38grs. Rifle powder like 4350, gets a lite drop, then trickle up.

A few 10th heavier at the end of a short run seem normal to me.

https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/perfect-powder-measure-consistency

 

[EricBu]

May also have been humidity impacting the weight.

Then, one gets into the weight vs volume debate.....

Yep, spot on. The usual culprit. Powder in the hopper over night, humidity rises, powder absorbs. Measures throw by volume. Your volume doesn't change, but the moisture content increases the weight. And yes, it will increase a few tenths of a grain. And yes, only having the powder in the hopper while loading, then putting it back into an airtight container will reduce. But this is a easily repeatable and measurable metric...powder absorbs moisture, moisture increases weight by volume.

This combined with other things can make for a pretty big disparity, I don't know a thing about Lees, but Dillons will walk a bit over time, and even my freakin' 900.00 digital measure from Mark VII will creep over the course of a 10K round batch.

 

[Reeferman]

I never let any of my powder measures get below half way and they stay depending on the powder right on the setting, plus or minus .1 grain depending on what powder and plus minus up to .2 grains with Unique or Herco.
If I stop more than 5 or 10 minutes then I dump the first few charges to get powder shaken up as plus minus will be higher especially with Unique and Herco being as high as .4.

 

[bltmonty]

This is how I have solved the powder weight creep. First, I fill the powder baffle almost to the top. Then I run 10-20 drops before I get the intended weight; 3rd, I make sure each drop is consistent and shakes the measure well. Finally, I have attached an acquarium air pump to my powder baffle, using part of a rubber bike inner tube as a buffer/gasket and let it run for 30 minutes. The air pump gently shakes the powder until it consistently settles. I do this when I am running near max or accuracy loads; otherwise, the variance does not matter for me.

these pumps are less than ten dollars at walmart or Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Aquarium-Air-Pumps/zgbs/pet-supplies/2975471011

 

[jmorris]

My initial powder weight was 23.1. I checked that 3 times for consistency today, and the other day several times as well. All came to 23.1. I proceeded to load 30 rounds of .44 magnum. At some point after half way, my powder weight became 23.5.

There are a number of things that can effect volume charges and their weight.

As for “increase steadily” vs “settle”, you would just extend your test. If at 60 throws it was up to 24.0 grains, I would say you had a problem. If it’s still 23.5, I would say you need to throw more charges to settle the powder column before you begin loading.

Folks have done lots of different things to help the issue, baffles being the most common. Cheap too, an aluminum can and a pair of scissors and you can make one.

Awhile back I was working on a floatzoner for “growing” silicon crystals, the raw material we used reminded me of looking through a powder hopper though. The column of it below the RF inductor/work coil.



To get the best end product, we purged the column with argon continually and vibrated it as well.

As R&D goes, I saved a few designs I made from the trash to one day measure the effectiveness on powder measures. Some day I should get around to it.

They were just tiny vibrators, counter weight on a small motor shaft, speed controlled by a PWM. This is one with the cover removed.

 

[dh1633pm]

My Hornady seems to change a little over time. Usually no more than about .1 to .2. For consistency I hit the lever hard up and then hard down. I only use it for pistol, never for rifle where I weigh everything. Pistol reloading can be more scary when a double charge can cost you a pistol. While double charging a rifle, just makes a mess of spilled powder. I weigh every 10 to 20 to ensure I am getting consistent results.

 

[EricBu]

There are a number of things that can effect volume charges and their weight.

As for “increase steadily” vs “settle”, you would just extend your test. If at 60 throws it was up to 24.0 grains, I would say you had a problem. If it’s still 23.5, I would say you need to throw more charges to settle the powder column before you begin loading.

Folks have done lots of different things to help the issue, baffles being the most common. Cheap too, an aluminum can and a pair of scissors and you can make one.

Awhile back I was working on a floatzoner for “growing” silicon crystals, the raw material we used reminded me of looking through a powder hopper though. The column of it below the RF inductor/work coil.

View attachment 1099765

To get the best end product, we purged the column with argon continually and vibrated it as well.

As R&D goes, I saved a few designs I made from the trash to one day measure the effectiveness on powder measures. Some day I should get around to it.

They were just tiny vibrators, counter weight on a small motor shaft, speed controlled by a PWM. This is one with the cover removed.

View attachment 1099764

Lol, that reminds of the old use of a certain type of vibrating male sexual aid. The ring was stretched around the hopper, near the base. The vibration kept the hopper from bunching and the powder flowing. Was all the rage on dillon powder measures in years past, hahahaha. Later on, was a guy at the Crossroads Gunshow in Tucson selling a "Powder Hopper Vibrator", he'd just copied the device mentioned, changed the colors, and added a 110V power supply.

 

[jmorris]

I think Chris’s is the most memorable pic…

 

[mcb]

You might look at finding a baffle that fits in your powder hopper. The increase is most likely to the powder settling and packing together increasing the bulk density. A baffle in your powder hopper keeps the entire weight of the powder in the hopper from bearing directly on the entrance to the slide. A baffle usually increases the consistence of a powder drop on a progressive press.