Do you crimp a 223/5.56 bullet with a cannelure in AR15

[Rule3]

OK, Direct from a telephone conversation with Hornady. The 55 gr bullet #2267 with cannelure should be crimped.
Any of the bullets with a cannelure used in a AR10 or 15 platform they recommend crimping. Their factory ammo of this type is crimped.

 

[moxie]

Did he happen to explain why? Any reason other than that's the way they do it?

I'm all for crimping, when there is a reason for it. Shooting a 55 FMBJT out of a semi auto AR is not a reason. Crimping here doesn't solve anything.

Full auto is a reason. That's why military rounds (M193/855/etc.) are lightly crimped. Crimping helps prevent bullet "jump" out of rounds in mags/belts under the vibrations created by full auto fire.

FWIW, again, crimping will not prevent bullet setback. Case neck tension does that.

 

[stavman11]

Yep, for a roll crimp you need consistent case lengths and cannelures. Another reason the Winchesters are a bad choice if you intend to crimp.

Those look good. I bought some of those because they were cheaper than the V Max.

The Z-Max are Tac Drivers for sure...... Love em... and for Longer Range Shots.... Over 200yds they are great as well..

Did a Few more Loads for tomorrow...... so we shall see what I get..... assuming I do Bust out the Chrono and log Book....LOL

 

[stavman11]

OK, Direct from a telephone conversation with Hornady. The 55 gr bullet #2267 with cannelure should be crimped.
Any of the bullets with a cannelure used in a AR10 or 15 platform they recommend crimping. Their factory ammo of this type is crimped.

Interesting....

Maybe with the NEW brass i just got.... Ill trim and test a large Group for Craps and Giggles for Fun...

Maybe 3-4 different Bullets... with and without Crimp...

I have an Xtra Seating Die... so I could just Pull one and Install the Other


DAMN IT......... Now I have ANOTHER Project on the Books...

umm Honey.... No Winter Garden.... I Gotta do some Bullet testing AGAIN.....LOL

 

[gahunter12]

Crimping and the Lee Factory Crimp die are the surest way to ruin a good bullet.

I will have to disagree here. I can care less about the FCD for hand gun loads, but I do use a FCD for my .223 rounds I use for Tactical Rifle matches, and training classes. Those rounds usually see 3-4 round rapid fire as fast as I can squeeze them off. My hunting loads for pigs/coyote hunting are NOT crimped. I fill there's really no need to crimp, but the light collet crimp I apply with the FCD is extra insurance for the rate of fire I see during matches.

As for deforming the bullet.... I have pulled bullets that were crimped, and not crimped just to find out if it did deform the bullet. So far I can't tell a difference. That said, if you apply a med, or strong crimp it may deform the bullet for sure.

 

[steve4102]

If a load needs to be crimped for better accuracy, IMHO, the load hasn't been tweaked correctly yet.

Really?

Who said a load "Needs" to be crimped for better accuracy?

Those of us that crimp, crimp for several reasons and accuracy is just one of the benefits.

Your comment is A-Kin to saying,

If OAL needs to be adjusted for better accuracy then the Load Hasn't been worked up properly.

Or, if you need to adjust the powder charge for better accuracy then the load hasn't been tweaked properly.

Or, if your brass needs to be Neck sized for better accuracy then you didn't FL size properly.

Or, if you need to use Mag primers then you didn't spend enough time working with standard primers.

Or, if your Lapua brass is more accurate then your Win brass then you didn't tweak the Win brass properly.

What does it all mean? It means you don'y know what you are talking about as far as crimping goes.

It is just another tool and technique, if you don't like it fine, don't crimp, but don't tell me I am incompetent or cutting corners if I find it beneficial.

 

[Walkalong]

Who said a load "Needs" to be crimped for better accuracy?

Well, it sounded like you did.

I would really like to see this article.

I have been saying this for a long time. I have dozens of test targets from 223/AR to 300WSM/BAR and crimping has almost always increased accuracy.

There is even a test here using Bolt action were crimping showed improvements in accuracy.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

Remember the old saying,
"Don't Knock It Till You Try It"

Other than that, I guess we just disagree on that one, and I most certainly did not call you incompetent. I merely disagreed that the best accuracy could not be found without crimping. After all, you did say it almost always increased accuracy. I am, however, sorry that I upset you.

 

[Potatohead]

Really?

Who said a load "Needs" to be crimped for better accuracy?

Those of us that crimp, crimp for several reasons and accuracy is just one of the benefits.

Your comment is A-Kin to saying,

If OAL needs to be adjusted for better accuracy then the Load Hasn't been worked up properly.

Or, if you need to adjust the powder charge for better accuracy then the load hasn't been tweaked properly.

Or, if your brass needs to be Neck sized for better accuracy then you didn't FL size properly.

Or, if you need to use Mag primers then you didn't spend enough time working with standard primers.

Or, if your Lapua brass is more accurate then your Win brass then you didn't tweak the Win brass properly.

What does it all mean? It means you don'y know what you are talking about as far as crimping goes.

It is just another tool and technique, if you don't like it fine, don't crimp, but don't tell me I am incompetent or cutting corners if I find it beneficial.

Sorry for an off topic comment here but geez man, lighten up. I hate to see a fellow member bust a blood vessel.

 

[steve4102]

Quote:
Who said a load "Needs" to be crimped for better accuracy?
Well, it sounded like you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve4102 View Post
I would really like to see this article.

I have been saying this for a long time. I have dozens of test targets from 223/AR to 300WSM/BAR and crimping has almost always increased accuracy.

There is even a test here using Bolt action were crimping showed improvements in accuracy.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

Remember the old saying,
"Don't Knock It Till You Try It"
Other than that, I guess we just disagree on that one, and I most certainly did not call you incompetent. I merely disagreed that the best accuracy could not be found without crimping. After all, you did say it almost always increased accuracy.

Have you ever done any accuracy testing with the Lee Factory Crimp Die? I mean real testing? Or are you basing this comment on what you have read on the Internet?

Give it a try, a real try.
Take several of you loads that you have worked so hard on and give them a run through the LFCD then report back. Then tell me that it is just a band-aid for poor loading practices.

 

[mtrmn]

I crimp em all. Eases my mind and that's that.

 

[wackemanstackem]

I firmly agree that bullets like Hornady put that cannelure on those bullets for a reason .Perfect neck tension and a little crimp around that cannalure just makes sence to me no matter what I am shootin at.If none was needed why would they go through the trouble of building a bullet with it if it wasnt needed.And if the military uses it I want to be like them cause there good at what they do.And they do things for a reason.

 

[moxie]

Again, the reason the military specs a crimped case into a cannelured bullet is to prevent bullet jump during FULL AUTO fire.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

wackemanstackem:
following mil spec is extremely tedious and expensive. i propose to you this: do you crimp your primer pockets, use brand new brass, store your cases in the correct size milspec cardboard, test chamber pressures, or use the same projectile/primers/powders as m193/m855?

if so, I've got a mil-spec hammer for sale...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Commission

 

[7mmsavage]

I mainly load Hornady FMJBT 55 gr bullets with canelure, for use in an AR, and I always crimp. Maybe the expander in my Lee die is too big like someone mentioned earlier, but I don't get enough neck tension without crimping. I didn't crimp at first, but once I had a mis-feed and the bullet was pushed way back into the case. Luckily it didn't chamber or I probably would have ended up with a big KB. Again, maybe it's just my dies, but it puts my mind at ease and is what works for me.

 

[steve4102]

I mainly load Hornady FMJBT 55 gr bullets with canelure, for use in an AR, and I always crimp. Maybe the expander in my Lee die is too big like someone mentioned earlier, but I don't get enough neck tension without crimping. I didn't crimp at first, but once I had a mis-feed and the bullet was pushed way back into the case. Luckily it didn't chamber or I probably would have ended up with a big KB. Again, maybe it's just my dies, but it puts my mind at ease and is what works for me.

I would still check those dies and expander ball.

Measure the outside diameter of a sized case. Seat a bullet and measure again. Should be at least .002 difference IMO.

 

[Walkalong]

Agreed. You should have better neck tension than that. May be as simple as polishing the expander plug.

Try what steve4102 suggested.

Another test is to size a case with the expander, and then without the expander and check the difference in OD. Or ID if you have pin gauges or a quality small hole gauge. OD is much easier to get right.

 

[aklaunch]

Exterior Ballistics.

This web site has so much good information written and edited by engineers and professionals.

This is lengthy... But great!

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

Another page of fun:

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/index.cfm

Most light cannelures could be to weaken to the bullet so it breaks a little easier.

 

[M1key]

Most light cannelures could be to weaken to the bullet so it breaks a little easier.

Hey, there's a thought...

M

 

[kostner]

Yes I use a LFC die and it has worked well for me.