"Do you give notice to homeowners before you concealed carry in their home?"

[misANTHrope]

Maybe I just don't go into enough other people's homes because of the few I do go into I am willing to discuss carrying in their homes before I do so or to leave my gun in the car.

I'm curious how many of those who voted would have voted the same way about their empoyers' anti-gun stance in the parking lot.

I see a lot of people here talk about how private property rights of employers, related to having a gun in your car in the parking lot, trump the 2nd Amendment and yet so many say they would carry in someone's home without asking or a store even if posted because it's no one's business if they're carrying. Are your feelings consistent in all of these situations or do you have a different opinion regarding carrying in someone's home versus carrying in a posted business versus locking a gun in their private vehicle in the parking lot at work.

I'm not following the connection here. Unless I misunderstand the original question, we're not talking about carrying into a home in spite of the homeowner's wishes; rather, we're talking about carrying into a home when you have no knowledge of the homeowner's wishes.

I'm one of those folks who has argued that employers should be able to fire employees for keeping guns in their cars against company policy. I also voted for #6 in tour poll here.

I see no disconnect between the two points of view; my actions are the same regardless of whether I'm entering a business or a home. If the property owner has made it known that he doesn't want weapons on his property, then I abide by those wishes; either I leave my weapon in the car, or I don't enter the property. But if the owner has made no statement whatsoever about guns, then I presume that it's OK until told differently. I apply this yardstick whether I'm entering a home, going to work, or shopping at Wal-Mart.

 

[blackcash88]

If I knew in advance that guns were unwelcome and still found it desirable to visit people who don't trust me I would respect their rights just as I wouldn't bring a bacon cheeseburger into a kosher home.

What if you just ate that bacon cheese burger or any thing else of the many, many non-kosher foods? It's concealed in your belly, right? There's a MUCH higher chance you might get sick and wind up spewing half-digested bacon all over the place than you needing to pull your gun and thereby disclose the fact that you were carrying.

I "get" the property rights thing, but I do NOT subscribe to the fact that if it's not otherwise actually illegal that I must disarm myself. I treat it like entering a business that's posted. Carry anyway and all they can do is ask me to leave in the states I spent my time in.

Besides, I go to peoples' houses all the time and the ones I know that aren't "gun people" (doesn't mean they are antis) have no clue that I carry. I have no clue what their "rules" in their home are as I never ask. I am NOT disrespecting anyone's wishes because the conditions are unknown. Seriously, how many people do you know have their house POSTED? Nobody.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

I can't believe the response. To me, it is the ultimate in disrespect to the homeowner.
I guess your carry permit supersedes his rights in his home? Boy, that's balls.

Specifically, which "rights" are those? Give detail.

When I had my boat, I didn't think twice about telling guests to make sure they didn't have anything illegal in their pockets, because I didn't want my boat seized.

ARe you really attempting to equate a legally owned and carried concealed firearm to something "illegal in their pockets"?

And who is going to "seize" someone's home because a visitor carried that said legally owned and carried concealed firearm into the home?

Hell, maybe you should light one up, it's legal to smoke in someone's house, right? Nobody's going to tell you what to do.

If you "light one up" in someone's home he will know it and have the opportunity to be offended

Yes or no?

[It really is a simple question. Go ahead and try answering it.]

If you have a concealed weapon on you he will know it and have the opportunity to be offended.

Yes or no.

[It really is a simple question. Go ahead and try answering it.]

Some folk are making a really big fuss over nothing of consequence.

 

[rainbowbob]

I guess your carry permit supersedes his rights in his home?

With all due respect - you are missing the point by a mile.

Of course my carry permit does not supersede a home owner's right to make the rules at his home. I will always respect and adhere to a home owner's rules IF POSTED OR OTHERWISE DECLARED.

If not - I won't interview each owner before I enter their home as to their likes and dislikes, taboos, etc. If they are important to him - he will make them known to me. If not - than I do what I think is courteous, ethical and legal.

I would not do anything that may have an obvious negative impact on the owner without asking, smoking being an excellent example.

This all seems so simple to me - and respectful of others. I just don't get the controversy.

 

[Drgong]

I would unless it was posted no carry or they somehow knew and asked if I would not carry.

 

[Guns and more]

Of course my carry permit does not supersede a home owner's right to make the rules at his home. I will always respect and adhere to a home owner's rules IF POSTED OR OTHERWISE DECLARED.

I can't believe you actually think that a homeowner must put a "no guns" sign in his yard before you honored his wishes. We're not talking about strangers, you'll know how a co-worker or friend feels about guns in the home.

Quote:
I can't believe the response. To me, it is the ultimate in disrespect to the homeowner.
I guess your carry permit supersedes his rights in his home? Boy, that's balls.

Specifically, which "rights" are those? Give detail.

That's your argument? You don't know if a homeowner has a right in his own house?

This discussion isn't even interesting any more. Good luck, have a nice life.

 

[Shweboner]

I do not, however, most of the people I visit privately already know that I carry.

For business, I regularly enter other homes, and I do not disclose anything.

 

[dm1333]

I can't believe you guys are still arguing about this!

I think I started the argument about respect with this answer:

Not telling somebody that you are bringing a weapon into their home is, in my opinion, disrespectful. Their home is their castle, abide by their rules or don't go in there.

Then, a few posts down the line somebody had this snarky little comment about my post.

I knew we could count on THR to give us people who think it's just wrong to take a gun into someone else's home without asking them first.

We have established that there are at least 4 states that require you to notify the homeowner of your concealed carry. What is everybody else arguing about? If I feel it is disrespectful to bring a weapon into somebody else's home without asking, deal with it. There is a long list of things I would not do in somebody elses house without asking permission, including drinking, lighting up a cigar, putting my best moves on the owners daughter, etc. Arguing vehemently with me or anybody else who feels the way I do about the matter isn't going to change our minds.

It has nothing to do with thinking there is something "negative" about carrying a gun!

 

[rainbowbob]

We're not talking about strangers, you'll know how a co-worker or friend feels about guns in the home.

I don't "know how a co-worker or friend feels about about guns in the home" - or anywhere else - if we have never discussed the subject. I don't know what he thinks about it either. I can't read minds nor will I make any assumptions about their opinions on anything. It's not a subject I bring up with many people.

This discussion isn't even interesting any more.

What is interesting is that it often seems when you find yourself in a debate in which common sense and facts are getting in your way - you declare you are "out of here".

 

[JackBurtonJr]

That's your argument? You don't know if a homeowner has a right in his own house?

We noticed that you couldn't actually tell us just what that "right" is that we would be breaking, eh.

And we know why.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

There is a long list of things I would not do in somebody elses house without asking permission, including drinking, lighting up a cigar, putting my best moves on the owners daughter, etc.

And just how many of those items are out in the open and visible to someone who can take exception and object to them?

And CCW is visible to whom?

Why are you comparing two completely different actions and pretending that they are somehow the same thing.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I just think it's wise *not* to create an issue where one doesn't exist.

If you know, for whatever reason, that a given homeowner objects, that's different.

For example, I have had a few casual encounters with the police that went quite smoothly, at least in part because I didn't queer the thing up with references to sidearms. (And in my jurisdiction, I'm not obliged to do so, that decision is left up to me, the armed citizen)

I should also clarify that I wouldn't go out of my way to gun up just because I was going to a neighbors house. I'm more talking about if I already was gunned up, and stopping by to pick up my kid or something.

 

[dm1333]

Quote:
There is a long list of things I would not do in somebody elses house without asking permission, including drinking, lighting up a cigar, putting my best moves on the owners daughter, etc.

And just how many of those items are out in the open and visible to someone who can take exception and object to them?

And CCW is visible to whom?

Why are you comparing two completely different actions and pretending that they are somehow the same thing.

Don't cut and paste sections of my post and leave out the main part of my point.

If I feel it is disrespectful to bring a weapon into somebody else's home without asking, deal with it. There is a long list of things I would not do in somebody elses house without asking permission, including drinking, lighting up a cigar, putting my best moves on the owners daughter, etc. Arguing vehemently with me or anybody else who feels the way I do about the matter isn't going to change our minds.

I'm not comparing two completely different things, you just conveniently left out the very most important part of my question. Why do you feel the need to change my mind about whether or not it is disrespectful to bring a weapon into another person's home without asking?

 

[Treo]

I want to get in before the lock that I can feeeeeeeeel coming.

When I took my CHP class one of the things that was stressed ( and one of the things I see stressed on this forum frequently) is that you don't go around announcing that you are armed. In Colorado doing so is right on the line of brandishing.

A gun is part of my normal dress if I am out of my home (excepting at work where I can't legally carry) I am armed, it's not a special event.

If I go to your home it's because you invited me. I go , conduct my business, have my vist, meet, greet, whatever. The gun never comes out, and I don't mention it because it really isn't that big a deal to me.

THIS IS MY OPINION
To me is seems that announcing that I'm armed is ostentatious, I'm giving you information you don't need. I mean how do you do that gracefully? " Hey Jim I'd love to stop by after work. But before I do I feel obligated to inform you that I hold a CHP and will be armed when I come to your home" My God it sounds like the drivel they tack onto car commericials.

Much Ado about nothing

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Don't cut and paste sections of my post and leave out the main part of my point.

Sorry, son, but I post as I choose. If I spot something interesting in a post I'll so note it. Since I didn't change in any way your meaning then it simply doesn't matter which part I posted about or not.

I'm not comparing two completely different things, you just conveniently left out the very most important part of my question. Why do you feel the need to change my mind about whether or not it is disrespectful to bring a weapon into another person's home without asking?

1) You are comparing "two different things". Otherwise, why bring up the list of things you also wouldn't do.

2) I found it fascinating that you failed to see on your list that "one of these things is not like the others" and thought it should be pointed out. Perhaps you didn't realize it.

3) What makes you think that I am attempting to "change your mind"?

4) What makes you think the thrust of my post was directed to you?

5) Is it within the realm of possibility that one can use another's post not to respond to that person but as a way to riff on a theme that needs to be developed?

7) Why do you feel the need to change my mind about whether or not to respond to a post?

 

[TAB]

If you have a concealed weapon on you he will know it and have the opportunity to be offended.

Yes or no.

this may come to a shock to you, but most people that carry concealed think they do a very good job of it, when infact they don't. A trained Eye can spot things that others miss. Perfect example: I just got done walking a house with a client that he had planed on buying, it had just gone thru a pest inspection, yet from the street( some 15' away) I clearly saw a active ( broke it open)termite tunnel. No one else saw it, there was myself, the client, his wife, the realtor, a home appraiser( this was a quick sale, guy needs cash like yesterday and we had planed on making a cash offer 1st thing in the morning... ) As a GC I am have lots of exp looking for things like that, which is why I saw it and no one else did.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Poll choices #1 and #2 are contradictory, especially #2. The question is: "Do you think it is unethical to carry concealed in another's home?"

So looking at choice number 2, how can it be unethical yet have no ethical implications?

Needless to say, I did not vote.

Sorry about the confusion. I am going to try to get a moderator to change the question to, "Do you tell a homeowner that you are carrying when you are in their home?"
When I had to redo the poll after it automatically erased it for having too many characters, I copy and pasted and made a mistake.

Moderator changed the poll/thread title, but choice number 2 is still a logical impossibility. How can something that has no ethical implications be unethical (or, for that matter, ethical)?

 

[dm1333]

Sorry, son, but I post as I choose. If I spot something interesting in a post I'll so note it. Since I didn't change in any way your meaning then it simply doesn't matter which part I posted about or not.

Calling somebody "son" is condescending and rude.

 

[JackBurtonJr]

Calling somebody "son" is condescending and rude.

Telling someone how they must post is condescending and rude.

 

[XDGirl]

I voted #6. No. I think it follows the same lines as walking into a business or riding in

 

[JackBurtonJr]

A trained Eye can spot things that others miss

And I am sure the average person is well trained on how to spot a concealed weapon.

 

[kd7nqb]

I dont tell but will answer honestly if asked. In addition if I know for a fact that the person is generally anti gun I will more than likely leave it in the car.

 

[misANTHrope]

I just think it's wise *not* to create an issue where one doesn't exist.

Pretty much sums up my standpoint.

Allow me to draw a comparison that I think will help to flesh out my position. My parents happen to be very religious folks, of the particular persuasion that alcohol is eeeeeeeeeevil. Now, once I got to an adult age and started to move away from blindly believing what I was taught as I child, I came to believe that alcohol, like many things, is perfectly fine in moderation. So I started to enjoy a beer from time to time, or maybe some good bourbon, or whatever. Now, at some point I could have sat down with my parents, and had a discussion about my feelings on the topic.

Mom, Dad, I just want you to know something. I drink alcohol.

But I never did that. The reason is that to my way of thinking, by making it into a sort of "coming-out" announcement, I was assigning a weight to the revelation that it didn't need to have. In a sense, I would have confirmed to them that I needed to confess some horrible transgression. In other words, I would have made a big deal out of something that wasn't a big deal.

Instead, I chose to neither hide nor flout my decision. They now know that I drink from time to time, but it's not a big deal to either of us. Instead of it being some big announcement, it was just a casual thing in passing. Is that beer in your fridge? Yup.

No big deal.

And such is the way I feel about announcing that I carry to folks in general. It's not "HEY GUESS WHAT?!?! I CARRY A GUN!!!" It's just a casual fact of life. If it comes up in conversation, and someone asks, I'll tell them straight out. It's no big deal. It's a natural choice I've made.

I assume that anyone who wants to invite me over to their house believes that I am a sane individual, and not dangerous. So I assume that they trust me, and if it turns out that they don't, then we go from there.

I think that homing in on it just lends credence to the idea that I'm doing something taboo, something that I need to come out of the closet about.

My $.02.

 

[KC0QGL]

I carry and they know

All my friends and family know I carry. Most don't care, most own guns. My Aunt doesn't like guns so I leave them in the car, out of respect.

 

[Monkeybear]

I should also clarify that I wouldn't go out of my way to gun up just because I was going to a neighbors house. I'm more talking about if I already was gunned up, and stopping by to pick up my kid or something.

Excellent point. There is a difference between going over to a neighbors for a dinner party or staying over with the in-laws or family friends and stopping by to pick up a lent tool or helping a friend with a computer problem.

I think its perfectly safe to carry a loaded gun in my pants all day long. That said, if I can infer that my host might feel otherwise I either politely decline the invitation or relieve myself of the firearm for the duration of the visit. My future mother-in-law is terrified of firearms. I have never once set foot in her house with a firearm because its her house and I know she would not want me too. Would she know? Nope, but I would.

As to the actual legal rights that home owners possess, I can't say. I am actually not interested in the legal rights of the home owner as much as I am of my own view that a persons home is their castle.

And for the last time; guns are not underwear. Even if you see them as the same the fact is that your host probably dose not.


ETA: I have never asked. Only if I think the person might have a problem with it do I accommodate them.